Converting monsters from Dragon magazine

[Cleon]

Combat Reflexes doesn't offer much, since it lacks reach. I'd prefer something more often beneficial, like Weapon Focus (bite).

Well if it can switch sizes as a free action it should threaten to the range of its Large size even when it's a few inches long, since it can instantly "enlarge and bite".

As for the WF (bite), does that mean you support the proposal to give it a bite attack as well?

Agreed. I'm not sure I like "gulp". Why not stick with a bite attack with the usual swallow whole mechanics? If we do decide on something other than bite/grab/swallow, I suppose this precedent is closest...

You can change the name, but the swallow attack does seem to fit a touch attack better than the melee attack of a bite.

Not sure about Sleight of Hand for a fish. It makes sense thematically, but feels like an odd skill choice here. I'm not sure I've got a better suggestion, though.

Well obviously it should be "sleight of fin".

 

[Cleon]

You know, I've been wondering since, oh, three posts ago, how long it'll take somebody to propose just using a flat DC instead of a Sleight-of-Hand check.

Although I like the Sleight check better, just 'cause its finnier.

 

[Shade]

Well if it can switch sizes as a free action it should threaten to the range of its Large size even when it's a few inches long, since it can instantly "enlarge and bite".

Even with that, it still only threatens 5 ft., which doesn't draw attacks of opportunity for movement out of its space. Also, it can only use a free action on its turn...it would need an immediate action to do so on its opponents turn.

As for the WF (bite), does that mean you support the proposal to give it a bite attack as well?

Most certainly. I think a bite/grab/swallow makes the most sense.

You can change the name, but the swallow attack does seem to fit a touch attack better than the melee attack of a bite.

Why? I get the "in a single gulp" suggests it takes place all at once, but doesn't strike me as a touch attack. It is still biting like most creatures with swallow whole.

Well obviously it should be "sleight of fin".

You know, I've been wondering since, oh, three posts ago, how long it'll take somebody to propose just using a flat DC instead of a Sleight-of-Hand check.

Although I like the Sleight check better, just 'cause its finnier.

I propose a flat DC.

My sole reason is to be a pain in the bass.

 

[Mortis]

it would need an immediate action to do so on its opponents turn.

Which it's limited to one per round (provided, of course, that it hasn't had a swift action) and also makes Combat Reflexes rather redundant.

Regards
Mortis

 

[Cleon]

Why? I get the "in a single gulp" suggests it takes place all at once, but doesn't strike me as a touch attack. It is still biting like most creatures with swallow whole.

I was thinking that there's no mention of it requiring an attack roll, it seems to automatically swallow a surprised opponent. Furthermore, it does no damage.

Making it a touch attack like you need to initiate a grapple seemed a good match to me.

I propose a flat DC.

My sole reason is to be a pain in the bass.

Anymore puns like that and I'll plaice you in detention!

 

[Shade]

I was thinking that there's no mention of it requiring an attack roll, it seems to automatically swallow a surprised opponent. Furthermore, it does no damage.

Making it a touch attack like you need to initiate a grapple seemed a good match to me.

Since we've decided to give it a bite attack anyway, might as well go the normal route rather than the dreaded exception-based design.

Anymore puns like that and I'll plaice you in detention!

I'll betta you think I'm the class clownfish.

 

[Cleon]

Since we've decided to give it a bite attack anyway, might as well go the normal route rather than the dreaded exception-based design.

Au contraire. A touch attack is the standard initiator for a grapple according to the rules, which means every creature in the game can use touch attacks for grapples and it's your bite-and-grapple creatures that are using exception-based design.

I'll betta you think I'm the class clownfish.

I'll skate around the issue, it cod end badly once other people start herring about the silly things we get up to.

 

[Shade]

Au contraire. A touch attack is the standard initiator for a grapple according to the rules, which means every creature in the game can use touch attacks for grapples and it's your bite-and-grapple creatures that are using exception-based design.

I'll give you that, but when it comes to swallowing, it starts with a bite attack.

I'll skate around the issue, it cod end badly once other people start herring about the silly things we get up to.

Ahh, the eel with it. I'd rayther not play koi with that grouper people.

 

[Cleon]

I'll give you that, but when it comes to swallowing, it starts with a bite attack.

Oh well, I had the feeling you wouldn't swallow the gulp attack.

Besides, I was fancying a bite option to give it something to do when it's full of digesting adventurers - it can only hold 2 Medium creatures, which may well be fewer than the party it is dealing with.

I was thinking 1d8 for the bite damage, based on downsizing our giant grouper conversion's bite (Huge 2d6 => Large 1d8 bite).

I'll update the Working Draft.

 

[freyar]

Looks fine. And I'm ok with sticking to 2d6 rounds for the dispel magic bit.

EDIT: aren't we giving it Weapon Focus (bite)?