June Errata

[Kzach]

I love how, with a "there's too much errata!" thread just dying down, that this thread is taking the "there's not enough errata!" stance. (For the sake of balance, I presume.)

I completely disagree with what you're saying! (whatever it was that you were saying)

 

[Dannager]

...and where the heck is the rest of the document? WotC, you spent 8 months on this? Over half of it is fixes to mistakes you made in the last 2 months? Just what are you spending time on?

I guess all the Class Compendium updates released for free online over the last eight months just don't exist, huh?

 

[Dice4Hire]

It is odd cleric is there, but not fighter, rogue or warlock. Well, I guess rogue is understandable. I have decided to ignore all of it, so no biggie any way.

 

[Nullzone]

Boo! Thumbs Down!

Once more they choose to nerf a perfectly fine item instead of fixing the actual problem. How many more of these changes are we going to have to suffer thru until they fix the slide/zone problem?
Everyone can see the issue, everyone can tell(HAS TOLD) them how to fix it. Just do it already!

It's not just the sliding/zone damage problem, it's an issue with any sort of auto damage. It makes minion killing effortless and is just completely uninteresting design.

 

[Marshall]

It's not just the sliding/zone damage problem, it's an issue with any sort of auto damage. It makes minion killing effortless and is just completely uninteresting design.

Isnt that by design? Minions are completely variable threats, depending on whether or not the party has multi-attack capability. Auto-damage effects only assist in covering that gap.

I do think there is room in the game for "elite minions" that are immune to autodamage/"Cleave" effects. Maybe 1hp/level so they take a real hit to kill, but secondary's just dont cut it.

 

[mudlock]

I do think there is room in the game for "elite minions" that are immune to autodamage/"Cleave" effects. Maybe 1hp/level so they take a real hit to kill, but secondary's just dont cut it.

1hp/lvl (as a threshold*) is both too low at low level and too high at high level. I think using the same equation as minion damage ( (lvl+7)/2 ) would probably work well.

*You don't want to actually track their hps. A hit that does at least the threshold level in damage kills the minion; any less bloodies it (or kills it if it's already bloodied.) Maybe they have a "bloodied value" too (half hp, as normal) below which the damage has no effect at all. So, for a 1st level minion, 4 damage kills it outright, 2 or 3 damage bloodies it or kills it when bloodied, and <2 (i.e., 1) damage is ignored completely; while at level 30, it takes 18 damage to kill out right, 9-17 to bloody, and 8 or less is ignored.

 

[mneme]

1hp/lvl (as a threshold*) is both too low at low level and too high at high level. I think using the same equation as minion damage ( (lvl+7)/2 ) would probably work well.

Actually, I could see using a threshold as a mechanism of replacing the "missed attacks never damage a minion" hack. Using reasonable thresholds would still let lucky missed attacks take out or bloody minions just like they can take out non-minion monsters - but minions would still have abstracted stats. A useful rules hack if one finds the current rules unsatisfying.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

A good idea is using the constitution modifier as treshold.

this way you can kill tough minions leass easy than squishy ones. And the modifier scales quite well. (And it is in the range of (lvl+7)/2 usually)

 

[kerbarian]

I've been using Fortitude defense as the instant-kill threshold (minions are only bloodied by less damage than that), which works pretty well.

The idea of also having a minimum damage for any effect on a minion is interesting, though I'm not sure what it should be -- maybe 5 damage per tier? With both of those in place, it would probably even be ok to let minions take damage on a miss.

 

[DracoSuave]

Isn't the answer to using monsters that are tougher than minions simply to use normal monsters?

The point of minions is to die en masse. They're like the mooks of Feng Shui and the brutes of 7th Sea. They're there for color, not for challenge.