Would removing Superior Weapons open the game up more?

[Herschel]

Getting back to some conversations from before, I've been playing with the idea of not allowing Superior Weapons (or Imps) in a game. Abdul Alhazred's thoughts coincided with and clarified some things I'd been musing about. This brings me to this point where I'm wondering if no Superior Weapon Feats would have more diverse builds being played. Would builds that use throwing weapons see an increase? Would there be less cheese? Would a much wider variety of feats get used (Rose King's, combat schools, etc.)?

Just an idea I've been tossing around.

 

[TerraDave]

In general, I think they should go. Part of the problem is the domination of other choices that you allude to. But I also have "aesthetic" problems with them. A battle axe is a big axe that can be used one handed--this is like the definition of it. A two handed sword is a big sword--up to six feet long!--that can be used two handed. And if these are in the game, why not use them...I am also not saying there is not scope for new weapons, there is actually plenty, but new weapons, not weapons that are the same as existing weapons, but just better with a feat.

 

[Klaus]

Instead of Superior Weapons, I'd include feats that allowed you to increase one of your weapons damage by one die size, or that added a property like High Crit or Brutal 1. So you wouldn't be wielding a better weapon, you'd be learning how to use your weapon better. To keep things balanced, there'd be a limit on how many of these "specialization" feats you'd be able to add.

 

[Peraion Graufalke]

Instead of Superior Weapons, I'd include feats that allowed you to increase one of your weapons damage by one die size, or that added a property like High Crit or Brutal 1. So you wouldn't be wielding a better weapon, you'd be learning how to use your weapon better. To keep things balanced, there'd be a limit on how many of these "specialization" feats you'd be able to add.

I've tinkered with a very similar idea, though I've kept a few superior weapons with the caveat that one can't specialize in them (e.g. parrying dagger, double scimitar, urgrosh).

[sblock=For those who are interested]Weapon Specialization Feats
The benefits from Weapon Specialization feats do not stack. If you use a weapon where two or more benefits could be applied, you must choose which benefit to use before you attack with the weapon.

Axe Specialization
Benefit: Choose a simple or military axe. When using that weapon, your weapon damage die increases one step.

Bludgeon Specialization
Benefit: Choose a simple or military hammer, mace, or staff. When using that weapon, your weapon gains the Brutal property:
Brutal 1 for [W] = 1d6, 2d4, 2d6
Brutal 2 for [W] = 1d8, 1d10, 1d12

Bow Specialization
Benefit: Choose a simple or military bow. When using that weapon, your weapon damage die increases one step.

Crossbow Specialization
Benefit: Choose a simple or military crossbow. When using that weapon, your proficiency bonus increases by +1.

Flail Specialization
Benefit: Choose a simple or military flail. When using that weapon, your proficiency bonus increases by +1.

Heavy Blade Specialization
Benefit: Choose simple or military heavy blade. When using that weapon, your weapon damage die increases one step.

Light Blade Specialization
Benefit: Choose a simple or military light blade. When using that weapon, your weapon damage die increases one step.

Pick Specialization
Benefit: Choose a simple or military pick. When using that weapon, your weapon gains the Brutal property:
Brutal 1 for [W] = 1d6, 2d4, 2d6
Brutal 2 for [W] = 1d8, 1d10, 1d12

Sling Specialization
Benefit: Choose a simple or military sling. When using that weapon, your proficiency bonus increases by +1.

Spear Specialization
Benefit: Choose a simple or military spear. When using that weapon, your proficiency bonus increases by +1.[/sblock]

 

[MrMyth]

I've cut them in my game (or, rather, hand them out as 'masterwork' treasure that don't require their own proficiency feats to wield.) I've also cut the Expertise feats. So far, it seems to be working well - one player already commented as they were levelling to 2nd how nice it felt to be able to take a feat purely for flavor reasons. And, during the game, players have felt much more capable of switching to different weapons when circumstances call for it - or risking having their weapon break (using the Dark Sun rules) since they know they can pick up another weapon and still feel competent with it.

Overall, I like having stuff like this available in the game as 'special' weapons, but when they become the default that every single weapon-wielder takes... they lose that special nature.

 

[Mirtek]

Instead of Superior Weapons, I'd include feats that allowed you to increase one of your weapons damage by one die size, or that added a property like High Crit or Brutal 1. So you wouldn't be wielding a better weapon, you'd be learning how to use your weapon better. To keep things balanced, there'd be a limit on how many of these "specialization" feats you'd be able to add.

So you're not really changing anything, but instead make the feat tax even worse?

So instead of taking proficiency with full blade the players takes increased [W] Greatsword and High Crit Greatsword.

Or you allow only one to be taken, in this case you just applied a nerf but still didn't reduce the feat tax nor changed the player sticking to his single weapon (the one where he has the one feat for) and neglecting any other weapon you place for him in a treasure hoard (until he finds someone who can cast transfer enhancement)

 

[Spatula]

So you're not really changing anything, but instead make the feat tax even worse?

So instead of taking proficiency with full blade the players takes increased [W] Greatsword and High Crit Greatsword.

Or you allow only one to be taken, in this case you just applied a nerf but still didn't reduce the feat tax nor changed the player sticking to his single weapon (the one where he has the one feat for) and neglecting any other weapon you place for him in a treasure hoard (until he finds someone who can cast transfer enhancement)

The fullblade is a special case, as it's the only superior weapon that gets two mechanical boosts over the military version (+die size, +high crit). Which is either a sign that the greatsword should do more damage, or that the greataxe shouldn't have high crit. All the other superior versions of military weapons get only one boost.

Personally I would design such a feat apply to a weapon category (axe, heavy blade, etc.) rather than a single type of weapon.

 

[DracoSuave]

I wasn't aware that superior weapon proficiency was necessary in order to be an effective character. I thought it was just a feat you could take to give you some performance.

The solution could be to exercise restraint? Try to keep pace with the party, not with the bleeding edge?

Is that answer too simple?

 

[keterys]

Personally, I think the game would be better if almost all of the superior weapons and implements weren't an option.

But it's a lot like that poll from the other week about feats that increase your attack and damage. Some people like it. Some people don't.

 

[Herschel]

I wasn't aware that superior weapon proficiency was necessary in order to be an effective character. I thought it was just a feat you could take to give you some performance.

The solution could be to exercise restraint? Try to keep pace with the party, not with the bleeding edge?

Is that answer too simple?

Unfortunately, too often the answer is yes for some players. In one game they're getting a little better, but it still reaers its head pretty consistently.