How to punish a metagamer?

[OberonViking]

But 40% of the time he is ok.

"There is good in him. I have felt it."

So he is redeemable, that's good.

I feel that this needs an out of game solution, as it seems he doesn't care about in-game consequences.
Perhaps he is bored or unhappy with his character - offer to let him change it.
Primarily, though, he needs to know that what he is doing isn't fun for anyone else. It is bullying.

We've talked about the group having a D!ckhead Clause. Anyone is welcome, but if they turn out to be a candidate for the clause, week after week, even after we talk to him/her about it (when I will tell them about the clause), then they are asked to leave.

 

[Shisumo]

Dropping a coup de grace on a sleeping party member is seriously not fun and definitely uncool.

I would, however, suggest that resorting to magical mind control in order to resolve a loot dispute isn't exactly being a paragon of love, kindness and rainbows. Clearly the player was annoyed by how the caster treated his PC, and I think he might have had a point. The GM doesn't want to "play his character," but dropping a charm person on someone who is supposed to be on your side is basically doing the same thing.

 

[Alishea]

Dropping a coup de grace on a sleeping party member is seriously not fun and definitely uncool.

I would, however, suggest that resorting to magical mind control in order to resolve a loot dispute isn't exactly being a paragon of love, kindness and rainbows. Clearly the player was annoyed by how the caster treated his PC, and I think he might have had a point. The GM doesn't want to "play his character," but dropping a charm person on someone who is supposed to be on your side is basically doing the same thing.

I kind of see your point but I think the intention of the charm spell is what matters. The wizard attempted to charm someone in order to do what is best for the group. The fighter was looking out for himself and saying he was playing CN. If he were willing to play a CE then it would be different and we would just kill him (at least my oracle would). I see the charm as not 100% peace and love, but I think that it was kind of forced. The wizard would never had done it if he were playing as if he were in a group.

And I think that a charm spell among friends is acceptable. In 3.5 I played a courtesan that used her abilities to make a fighter carry her through the mud so she didn't have to walk. I don't think it was a bad move for the party, it didn't hurt anyone and it stayed true to both characters.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

The fighter was looking out for himself and saying he was playing CN.

Oh. He's one of those.

I'm sorry.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Oh. He's one of those.

I'm sorry.

My sentiments exactly. People who think CN means they can be selfish pricks and do whatever they want and "be in character" are a scourge of the game and must be purged. Really, I prefer characters that are outright CE and don't try to hide/condone the fact that their character's vile.

 

[concerro]

So we have a bit of an issue. We have been able to finally find players that we like except for one. He is a major metagamer. For example, we had some party discord about loot essentially the fighter (metagamer) wanted to hold on to a magical item that was meant for a caster. The oracle (me) wanted the item. He refused to hand it over and the wizard cast a charm spell on him. Well, as soon as the fighter heard that the wizard had charmed him he waited until we had rested for the night and said that he was going to coup de grace the wizard during his watch.

What does the item do, and why does he want to hold on to it.

This caused the rest of the group to get angry saying that he had no reason to hate or kill the wizard that a level 2 fighter would have no idea what the wizard did when he did his magic. In order for the group to continue on the DM allowed the wizard to go back and change his action after the spell.

Charm person does not give someone amnesia. He would be well aware of what happened.

Well the rest of the group went a long with it in an effort to keep the session going. But now that we have had time to talk we aren't a fan of this. The DM has stated that he would be willing to not allow PK but we think that if the roleplay context would make PK make sense then it should be allowed. We are now at a loss as to what to do. The DM has stated that he will never say to the fighter that his character doesn't do something (essentially he will never take control of the character). But this leaves the rest of us open to his metagaming and having to play based on the fear that he will kill our characters. The fighter doesn't care if his dude dies, since he does no roleplay, but the rest of us have a fondness for our characters and would be quite unhappy if they died under such circumstances.

Punishing never really works. If the guy is being a jerk I would call him on it, and try to reason with him. If he continues to be a jerk he should be booted.

Any suggestions?

We are thinking about clamming up and not saying anything and just passing notes the entire time.

*oh and kicking the metagamer out is not an option due to diplomacy issues that this would cause*

Darn. I need more info if you can't kick him out the exact situation.

 

[tylermalan]

In-game "punishment" is silly.

This is a social issue that is, by-and-large, totally separate from the game that you're playing. It should be dealt with as such - by this I mean: would you go to the movies with someone that annoys you? Maybe once, before you know how annoying they are, but would you keep doing it?

If the person is doing something that you don't like, you talk to them about it, like real people. If the person continues to do it, you stop wasting your time trying to have fun with someone who obviously doesn't care. It's very simple - don't make this about the game; this is about personality conflicts between two real people (or between one person and many others).

 

[Holy Bovine]

The fighter was looking out for himself and saying he was playing CN.

Ahhh the siren call of players everywhere! He will never get better than he is right now and will most likely get worse and worse.

If he were willing to play a CE then it would be different and we would just kill him

hint: he is already playing CE - ignore the scribbles he has placed upon his character sheet. Killing defenseless sentients is evil and chaotic! Problem solved! Off his fighter and watch him bring in another one just like the first - and now he'll be out for revenge!

At which point you kick him out.

 

[Dannager]

hint: he is already playing CE - ignore the scribbles he has placed upon his character sheet. Killing defenseless sentients is evil and chaotic!

Except when it's not, right?

Capital punishment is the killing of defenseless sentients, and it is by definition lawful, and is arguably a moral good. The fighter obviously feels betrayed by his party (or at least the caster) to some degree and feels that retribution is in order. I would argue that, in point of fact, mind-controlling someone in order to take their things (not to mention apparently lying to them about it after the fact) is the only objectively evil action in this story.

Yes, the fighter's player is being a dick. So was the caster. And, more importantly, Alishea's group quite clearly needs to implement a no-party-conflict rule; it clearly cannot handle such tension maturely (which isn't to rag on the group, really, since very few groups are capable of handling party conflict maturely).

 

[GameOgre]

First off let me say that finding people with the same play style as you is heaven! Most of the time though we all have to realize that the game needs to be a mix and match of what everyone wants.

Loot issues are ALWAYS a pain.

Unless you have a solid agreement how things are handled you have no right to claim anything more than he does. work together to find a agreement. This doesn't mean you all gang up on him and attack him though! Thats just what your characters did!

Look at it from his point of view.

What if there was something he wanted and so did you. So he put a sword to your characters throat(his class tool just like spells are the mages) and made you give it up. not only that but the entire party went along with it!

Then when you felt like getting revenge(always a bad idea) the DM stopped the game and let the party retroactivly make changes so that your revenge did not work out!!

See? If you take a steep back and look at it he has all the reason in the world to act like a arse! He will not be at the next game probably for a reason!

My advice is for you guys to apologize for the whole mess and try to laugh it off. Also to realize that your Metagamer is not the devil just because of his play style. I have a metagammer in my group and we all manage to get along fine! now thats not saying he might not be a arse! Just that it isnt BECAUSE of his play style.

I also agree that it does not sound like this group of people can handle character conflicts well and needs clear rules on how to deal with stuff like this. Few groups can and its all about the fun.

If it aint fun don't do it! but thats a two way street! If it isn't fun for his character you shouldn't do it either!

Also a no Evil or CN Alignments rule is needed.Frankly the player freedom to make a character with those alignments isn't worth the pain of the conflicts they cause.