Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder sales

[Echohawk]

However Amazon also lists Pathfinder above 4e.

Not quite. Amazon indicates that some specific individual Pathfinder titles are more popular choices than some specific individual 4e titles. This does not necessarily indicate that overall sales of Pathfinder products exceed the overall sales of 4e products.

To be clear: I would be inclined to take the Amazon rankings as at least an indication that Pathfinder is selling better than 4e overall on Amazon, but I don't think the rankings provide sufficient information to conclude that with any level of certainty.

 

[czak]

Paizo uses Bookscan to track their sales (and the sales of competitors) through amazon and through other retailers. Apparently they have very good data on sales numbers. Lisa Stevens and co don't have to rely on amazon rankings and a summary of ICV2's report when they that say they are currently selling more books. I wonder how much it costs to access bookscan?

source:

paizo.com - Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder RPG / General Discussion / Archives / Pathfinder is Tied for 1st! Congrats to Paizo!

Nielsen BookScan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.alanrinzler.com/blog/2009/05/14/author-alert-what-you-don%E2%80%99t-know-about-bookscan-can-hurt-you/



[edit] Apparently it costs 5000 dollars a year for full access to bookscan's data or 85 dollars for information on a single book. Anyone work for a publishing company?[/edit]


Other than an data point, one selling more than another doesn't really affect my day to day life. The head to head competition on pre-painted plastics is more interesting. I am excited to see how far quality, price point and detail will be pushed.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Not quite. Amazon indicates that some specific individual Pathfinder titles are more popular choices than some specific individual 4e titles. This does not necessarily indicate that overall sales of Pathfinder products exceed the overall sales of 4e products.

To be clear: I would be inclined to take the Amazon rankings as at least an indication that Pathfinder is selling better than 4e overall on Amazon, but I don't think the rankings provide sufficient information to conclude that with any level of certainty.

But does allow comparison core to core, etc.. The one core PFRPG book is selling well above the core PHB and DMG. The newest PFRPG book is selling better than the newest 4e book (but the newest 4e book is above every other PFRPG book). Pathfinder holds 4 of the top 5, but only 5 of the top 10.

While it is likely PF has the lead I would stake that is a narrow one. It also looks like Essentials is doing better than it did a while back (the Essentials line is, as I think I mentioned before, a line that expected to do well, and was kind of flummoxed when it did not). The PF Bestiary 2 and GMG trailing waaaayyyy behind every other hardcover release in the line.

And, of course, PF does not have the small mountain of hardcovers that WotC pushed out for the first year or so of 4e's existence. Now WotC has slowed their pace and individual books are likely doing better for it.

I can live with parity.

The Auld Grump, time to go, pagans to run games for....

 

[Echohawk]

But does allow comparison core to core, etc.. The one core PFRPG book is selling well above the core PHB and DMG.

But because Amazon has a linear ranking, we have no idea how sales of the one core PFRPG book compare to sales of the core PHB plus the DMG. Hence we can't even properly compare core to core. (And that's ignoring the availability of the bundled PHB/DMG/MM slipcase set and the bundled PH1/PH2 slipcase set.)

I find your other Amazon observations very interesting though, thanks for those. I'm quite surprised that Essentials looks like it is doing better than it was at first, and equally surprised that Bestiary 2 is trailing behind other hardcover releases. But maybe that's just my personal bias towards any sort of monster book skewing my expectations. (I never have enough monsters!)

 

[Mournblade94]

It was probably a clerk that was a fan of Pathfinder. I personally don't have a problem with it if they work in the store.

When I 'm at the game store I pretty much talk up Pathfinder over 4e. I never talk down 4e if someone wants to purchase it, but if they ask me for a good game, I go to Pathfinder. I don't work there as a clerk, I just get asked my opinion alot.

Worst I have done is a person walked up with Players Handbook II 4e, asked if he needed PHB I (of which every copy in store was sold), I told him yes, but Pathfinder Core has everything you need and was essentially the third edition of D&D so you could have the D&D experience. He bought that one.

I have a problem when clerks passionately talk down one of the stores products because of opinion like Buy the DC comics they are so much better than Marvel, etc. There is no place for that in a store trying to make sales.

A clerk trying to prop one up over the other, go ahead, all other stores do it!

 

[Mournblade94]

But because Amazon has a linear ranking, we have no idea how sales of the one core PFRPG book compare to sales of the core PHB plus the DMG. Hence we can't even properly compare core to core. (And that's ignoring the availability of the bundled PHB/DMG/MM slipcase set and the bundled PH1/PH2 slipcase set.)

I find your other Amazon observations very interesting though, thanks for those. I'm quite surprised that Essentials looks like it is doing better than it was at first, and equally surprised that Bestiary 2 is trailing behind other hardcover releases. But maybe that's just my personal bias towards any sort of monster book skewing my expectations. (I never have enough monsters!)

There is no way to tell from here whether PF is REALLY outselling D&D. I am not too concerned if they are or are not. If it is, it is just more of "an I Told you so.." type of remark to WOTC for their poor marketing choice of cutting all 3rd edition support.

 

[El Mahdi]

...A clerk trying to prop one up over the other, go ahead, all other stores do it!

As a marketing ploy, it's not a bad idea.

Putting a sign up saying Pathfinder is outselling D&D may get more people buying Pathfinder books because of it's popularity, and get fans of Pathfinder to maybe buy books they don't have in an effort to keep Pathfinders sales up. At the same time it might also boost sales of WotC's books by D&D fans trying to push D&D ahead.

Win-Win for the store.

 

[CleverNickName]

I knew this would be the place to come for an answer. I gather from everyone's responses (and from the links everyone provided), that both WotC and Paizo are doing very well. Which is pretty much win-win for gamers everywhere, since it means the hobby as a whole is still being creative (and getting published.)

And thanks for the Post-it markup, El Mahdi. I lol'd. Honestly though, if I put anything up, it will be a smartphone-scan link to this thread. "I've got yer citation right here."

 

[Umbran]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

These threads tend to turn into horribly childish rounds of edition warring and folks trying to defend or attack one company or another. Please note that we have had a rash of this nonsense recently, and the moderation staff isn't going to have much patience with more of that.

If we see sign that folks are deciding that a gaming company is more important to them than fellow gamers, they are not going to be given warning to back off.

Show respect for people, no matter what game they play, or company they like. Act like a mature, responsible adult. Do not post when angry. Choose to walk away from the keyboard rather than escalate. Use your Ignore List.

In general, be excellent to each other. There's real badness in the world - don't create more over trivialities like how well someone else's business is doing this quarter.

 

[gamerprinter]

...and doesn't include DDI, WotC's sales through Amazon, WotC direct distribution to stores, or any other sales info WotC doesnt share with anyone

No but statistics show that ICv2 is usually within in 1% of actual sales - not everytime, but they're numbers are usually very accurate, even though their selection data is not. So despite where the numbers come from they tend to be right...

GP