How much backlash is too much?

[SuperJebba]

Good morning, guys! I have a little situation brewing in my group that requires action on my part as the DM, but I am not sure how much action is too much action. Let me start at the beginning.

My group is exploring a megadungeon and there is a town nearby that has served as the group's base of operations. In this town, they have developed relationships with the innkeeper, a couple of shopkeepers and a wizard that identifies magic items for them. All of these people are basically good or neutral with good tendencies.

My group consists of mostly evil characters or, at best, chaotic neutral characters.

At our second session (we're on session 10 or so now), I introduced a second group of adventurers. This group was a LG order of knights that served Heironeous, and as you can imagine, there was a stereotypical paladin in the group. Not to brag or anything, but I RPed this paladin amazingly well and one of the players in my group, playing a NE swordsage, absolutely hated him.

I created the LG group for a couple of reasons. First, I wanted to have some RP opportunities and character development. Second, I planned on using the group as a safety net if the need arose to save the PCs. I planned on having an epic battle between the knights and the PCs towards the end of the campaign so the players could exact vengeance on the cocky do gooders.

So here's the situation that's brewing. Last week, the PCs inadvertently opened a gate to the Abyss that demons got summoned through every 1-2 hours. The gate also infused the surrounding area with negative energy so any corpse would rise up. The party nearly wiped, so the ran and let the gate run rampant. I had the LG group of knights show up after the PCs had left to close the gate so it didn't become a problem that the PCs couldn't handle.

During the battle, LG group lost 2 members of their party, including the paladin's newly recruited 16 yo cohort. Another member of the group, the only female, was seriously injured and the paladin lost an eye. Also during the battle, the paladin saw the risen corpse of one of the PCs and completely lost it. He believed the PCs, more specifically the swordsage, were responsible. Battered, teetering on the brink of death and shocked and despaired at the loss of his comrades, he marched back to town to confront the swordsage.

At the inn, the paladin stormed in, threw the swordsage on a table and demanded to know what he had done. No attack rolls were called for or anything like that, this was simply an RP encounter. So then the swordsage, being a little OP and such, used a maneuver that allowed him to teleport behind the paladin and he put a sword to his neck. The paladin continued yelling in his crazed state and the swordsage decided to kill him in broad daylight in the middle of a crowded tavern. The paladin was already at -1 hps so it didn't take much. Then the swordsage, removed his sword, sat back down and finished his lunch.

So here's my dilemma, how much backlash is too much? My thoughts are that the innkeeper asks the group to leave, the shopkeepers refuse to sell or buy anything and the wizard triples the price he charges to cast identify. I also considered incarcerating the swordsage, but I don't know.

I absolutely abhor evil PCs and their presence in my games, so I feel like I'm maybe overreacting. I just feel like evil PCs force me as a DM to do things that make the game not fun and go down paths that I have moral reservations against. Is this perhaps how an overall good aligned town would react?

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks guys.

 

[Rechan]

Were I the GM I'd have the town riot. Murdering a wounded paladin in broad daylight? Murdering the paladin also gave credence to anything he was ranting about; if the townsfolk also think that the PC is responsible for demons and undead and whatnot... The natural reaction (unless these are really high powerful guys) would be to try and lynch the guy on the spot.

Arresting the swordsage at the very least. He probably has the means to escape but geez.If the PCs murder town peacekeepers/sheriffs, it's bounty hunter time.

Also, an interesting wrinkle would be the surviving paladins regrouping at a nearby church, and someone sending an Inquisitor or Holy Justicer to seek justice for an open murder of a paladin. If the PCs return to the dungeon, now the holy rollers are going bounty hunting on the PC.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

What Rechan said. They're likely going to lose their base of operations and get to enjoy having the townsfolk spit on them, at best.

Brad

 

[1Mac]

Off-topic, but if you dislike evil PCs so much, why are you running an evil party? As the DM, it's your prerogative to limit what sorts of PCs are allowed, including alignment. It's too late now, but it's something to think about for next time, especially if something like this is likely to happen again.

I'm with the other posters, that the backlash should be pretty strong. I can see the player thinking you are picking on him, but he did murder a beloved paladin in front of a large crowd of people. You can make sure the party understands that this is fallout for the one player's action; that ought to help him realize that the fault is his.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

Off-topic, but if you dislike evil PCs so much, why are you running an evil party?

This.

I would have a discussion out-of-game with the group, explaining that the actions and mood that are going on in the campaign are out of hand and not something that you're really comfortable running. Then have them make up new (good) PCs and start again.

If you feel the urge, you can have the new PCs come into town some months after the events after those you described, and make some details available about what happened to the group's evil predecessors. Or not...

 

[Stormonu]

The situation should resolve itself partly depending on the reputation of the Swordsage and the Paladin (and their collective groups).

The paladin did start the assault, so the Swordsage has the right to defend himself. However, law officials tend to look poorly on "bar fights", much less ones that lead to a death.

Depending on the reputation of the Swordsage and the Paladin, I can see several responses:

If the Swordsage has a poor reputation as a "troublemaker" and the Paladin is seen as a sort of hero in the town, the local law officials will likely attempt to capture and try the Swordsage for murder. If the Swordsage resists and proves too much to handle, the Swordsage (and possibly any associates) might be declared outlaw and a bounty put on their head for capture (which I'm sure the Good group would be all too willing to collect on).

If both the Swordsage and the Paladin were both seen as town heros, the law officials will likely attempt to detain the Swordsage for questioning. He might be forced to spend some jail time and/or pay recompance for having the Paladin resurrected (or for at least burial and the "value" of the Paladin's services to the town for closing the gate). He (and the rest of the party) may even be sanctioned or exiled from the region for some time until tempers cool down.

-------------------

As an aside, I'd be more careful about how you handle this DMNPC group. I don't think it was a good idea in the first place to have the NPC's swoop in and "solve" their problem for them. It probably would have been better to have the Good group discover the portal and return to town after doing some recon of the area and either offer advice or assistance - but the failure or success of closing the gates should have been on the PCs - not the NPCs.

 

[S'mon]

If you don't like DMing Evils you seriously should not be DMing Evils. You won't have a good time and you'll be tempted to screw over the PCs. IMO you should wrap this campaign up quick and set firmer rules next time.

 

[El Mahdi]

Reactions don't necessarily need to be drastic. Obviously, killing the Paladin in cold blood is going to freak out the locals, but I doubt they are going to have the guts to outright rebel or riot against such a brazen and powerful group. I'd just make any cooperation they get from this point on, more reluctant and less forthcoming. Such as:

• Magic Item identification may not be as "thorough" in the future.
• When asked for information the villagers will provide it, but only what they have to, and might not warn the group about more dangerous situations or elements.
• When in a crunch, the group may find that their supplies or equipment they purchased in town isn't quite up to the task.
• They may send for help or entreat a higher authority for help ridding them of the group.
• They might distribute requests for indiduals or groups that would rid them of the group for a price (reward). (Kind of like the girls in the brothel from the Clint Eastwood movie, The Unforgiven.) Now they have rival asassins and groups coming after them.
• The survivors of the Paladin's group pursue the PC's group for retribution/justice.

The group is either going to have to mend some fences to get the villages support back, or just go full Evil...

 

[Mark CMG]

My group consists of mostly evil characters or, at best, chaotic neutral characters.

(. . .)

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks guys.

Evil is for monsters and villains.

 

[The Shaman]

If the Swordsage resists and proves too much to handle, the Swordsage (and possibly any associates) might be declared outlaw and a bounty put on their head for capture (which I'm sure the Good group would be all too willing to collect on).

Of course, if the local authorities are unable to handle the Swordsage, the Swordsage may discover that his reputation among other outlaws skyrockets - he may be able to attract a considerable band of cutthroats, which brings with it its own brand of dangers.

As an aside, I'd be more careful about how you handle this DMNPC group. I don't think it was a good idea in the first place to have the NPC's swoop in and "solve" their problem for them. It probably would have been better to have the Good group discover the portal and return to town after doing some recon of the area and either offer advice or assistance - but the failure or success of closing the gates should have been on the PCs - not the NPCs.

I couldn't disagree more.

Having a group of lawful good knights close the portal the adventurers left open is a great example of the setting coming to life around the adventurers. The idea that there are other actors out there adds verisimilitude to the game-world - it makes it feel like a real place.