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Suggestions for Playing a Paladin

Halivar

First Post
don't be a jerk about it.
Totally this. I just don't see a "good" person being a jerk. Or being unsympathetic.

A paladin sees killing baddies as a necessary evil (key word: evil). They neither enjoy it, nor lust for it. But they will do such distasteful deeds at the drop of a hat, because protecting innocents and avenging great wrongs is more important to them than their own sensitivities (or even innocence).

Beyond that, they are kind, compassionate, etc. They are good.
 

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Azgulor

Adventurer
My group will shortly be starting a new campaign and I'm considering playing a Paladin. After playing for various versions of D&D over the last 25+ years this will be my first serious attempt at playing a paladin.

We will be playing Paizo's AP Serpent's Skull, using PFRPG.

I want to play a Lawful Good Paladin not Lawful Stupid that is not going to get himself or the party killed for no good reason.

I'm looking for any suggestions and advice the brain trust that is the ENWorld Community can provide.

Thanks

JD

1. Remember that Rigid Wet Blanket is also part of Lawful Stupid.

2. If you can get a copy of Faiths of Purity, you'll find 5 different Paladin codes keyed for 5 of the good dieties -- which can help show what kind of variation in ethics can be employed while still being Lawful Good.
 

Baron Opal

First Post
Good for you, JDragon!

Talk to your DM about expectations is the most important thing, I believe. You need to determine the importance of alignment, the paladin's code, and how broad or narrow it is. Determine where the lines are and the shades of grey between them. Do you have to be all bright and shiney all the time? Or, can you sneak along with the fighter and rogue through the sewers into the castle?

Determining your DM's attitudes towards alignment is key. I consider there to be 9 distinct alignments. Lawful good is not the sum of Law and Good; there is no time that paladins have to choose one over the other. They have to hew to the LG standard, which can be difficult enough. That's caused some disconnects with people playing in my games on occasion.
 

Jack7

First Post
This thread, has, I think, some of the best responses of any thread I've ever seen on this site.

I wish I could give experience points to many of the responses, but I need to spread some more around.

Not much more I can add in this case but from my point of view, and having played a Paladin, I'd just say that a Paladin can be, and often should be, in conflict between the various points on his own (as well as the world's) motivational compass.

There should be inherent conflicts, from his point of view, or anyone's point of view who tries to operate in the world striving to do the best and most noble and most honorable thing, yet who is also not nearly naive enough to think that the best and most noble and honorable thing is the way the world actually often operates.

There should always be a real conflict between Intention and Reality.

And this is especially true with a Paladin who strives to achieve an Ideal but must actually operate in Reality.

He should be at conflict between True Goodness and Real Justice, as opposed to temporary necessity and human law, he should be at conflict between Personal Honor and Self-Sacrifice, and Service to Others, and Survival.

This is what I think makes the Paladin actually one of the most interesting Character Types/Professions to play.

How will his personal ideals, his innate spiritual values, his duty to society and those he serves, his immediate goals and objectives, his higher motivations, and his own personal character be tested at any given moment in any particular situation, and then how will he resolve those conflicting concerns in the best way possible?

Personally I am, as a DM, not in favor of demanding too harshly or rigidly that the Paladin resolve every situation and every conflict in the same way on every occasion. The Paladin should not be, in my opinion, a "moral relativist" by any means, but then again he must fight the enemies he actually encounters, and strive to change the world for the better as he actually discovers the world, not as he wishes it to be.

And sometimes that can be a very difficult thing, both in fiction and in fact (real life). And it can be a very rewarding set of conflicts to actually resolve (if you can - and everyone fails from time to time), but it can also be an extremely taxing and even grief-filled set of circumstances to have to actually endure.

So good luck with it, but in my opinion being a Paladin is not a set of rules you follow in place of your soul, they are a set of rules and guidelines you follow to try and discipline your soul and thereby use that self-inflicted discipline (physical, mental, and spiritual) to help improve the world around you.

So being a Paladin, or anytime you set out to become something greater than yourself, will actually make you more yourself, not less, and becoming a Paladin should make your character far more multi-dimensional and more truly himself, than not.

A Paladin can and should be many things, but he should never be a caricature of himself. Rather he should be a man filled with real character. Hard won and well disciplined character.
 
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JDragon

Explorer
Wow, the great information just keeps rolling in. This is great. Thanks to everyone that has posted.

Azgulor - Thanks for the suggestion on Faiths of Purity, I will make sure and take a look at that, I expect it will be very helpful.

The group and DM are all aware I'm considering playing a Paladin and no one so far has mentioned any concern about it. The DM is a little on the new side, but I'm not expecting to have any major issues with her.

Hopefully the mods will not hurt me for talking about specifics ;) but PFRPG has made how Detect Evil works fairly well defined which I think will make things easier. When you use Detect Evil you have to specify what object or creature that are with in the area of effect you are checking. I think this will make it much easier to not be Lawful Stupid about.

JD
 

thedungeondelver

Adventurer

Buy beg borrow or steal a copy of THREE HEARTS AND THREE LIONS by Poul Anderson. Not just because its a damn fine book, it is the model for many things D&D: paladins, trolls, the swanmay, some ranger-ish stuff, alignment, elves' (and other certain races) inability to be resurrected but also because the protagonist has the very same problem you do, to wit, how he a modern man, can be a paladin in a fantasy medieval setting.

He deals with it the best way he knows how, using the best wisdom he can apply at every turn.

Highly recommended.
 


Having played paladins and thieves (rogues, whatever) most of my playing career I have found that they are not so far afield from each other, just a slight difference in motivation. Both wish to achieve either fame (personal for the thief, organizational or doctrinal for the pally); notoriety (infamy for the thief and a reputation as stalwart and true for the pally); and personal security (via wealth for the thief and spiritual blessings for the pally)

Having DM'd a party that had two paladins of the same god (along with a PC cleric) it is also key to understand that even two paladins of the same order will differ on what is the correct course of action. One pally was from a period in history 200 years prior (was found in stasis and rescued) and was embroiled in a holy war when everything just stopped - his view point was more direct, find evil, separate it or isolate it and then eliminate it. The second was from a time of relative peace - his view point was more educate and reform first, hack and slay second. Neither was wrong, it was really a good test for me as a DM and only once in 4 years did I have to intervene with the "are you sure that's a good idea? *wink wink, nudge nudge* because the action was a little over the top.

Tips for playing a good paladin -
  • Formally draft a code of conduct and get it approved by your DM. This is something you can do by yourself and then get approved or something you can work on together, but in the end, you both have to agree to it.
  • Do your homework, some great examples of pallys have been given here, but there are some others that are not so "obvious" Captain America, Nick Fury of Shield, the Lone Ranger, Randolph Scott, Col. Wilma Deering, Mr. Spock, Teddy Roosevelt, Joan d'Arc, and the list goes on. Never discount ANY source of information as something that can give you paladin or paladin like behavior; comics, westerns, sci-fi and history all have examples of people with above the water morals while still having human (or racial) flaws.
  • Solidify your background history and use it as a "moral compass" in future actions.
  • NEVER, NEVER, NEVER deviate from your typical actions due to lack of sleep or a "bad hair day". If you don't feel up to playing, don't play, bad judgement WILL come back to haunt you.
  • If you have a really sticky problem, stop, drop and pray for guidance - the DM doesn't have to give you a straight answer, but you can't be failing if you are communing with your deity. At the very least the DM should get the hint that you really are confused and need some assistance. (unless he/she is a total wad in which case, find another table to play at. )
  • Have fun, remember there are some killer benefits that come with being a holy warrior: usually get free lodging and food, towns folk generally see you as "THE" good guy and will willingly help you if they are able, the temple should assist you if they can (whether by labor, logistics, love or lend/lease), all subject to DM approval of course.
  • Lastly, never discount the presence of a good mount - Silver would approve.
 


Pentius

First Post
Totally this. I just don't see a "good" person being a jerk. Or being unsympathetic.

A paladin sees killing baddies as a necessary evil (key word: evil). They neither enjoy it, nor lust for it. But they will do such distasteful deeds at the drop of a hat, because protecting innocents and avenging great wrongs is more important to them than their own sensitivities (or even innocence).

Beyond that, they are kind, compassionate, etc. They are good.

Such is the way of the Scorpion Clan. The greater good is far more important than one's personal honor.
 

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