Suggestions for Playing a Paladin

[Umbran]

JDragon,

At the moment, this thread is general enough to stay in General - every edition has paladins. If you want this to become specific to Pathfinder Paladins, let the mods know and one of us will slide it over to the Pathfinder forum for you.

Carry on, folks!

 

[humble minion]

One of the problems paladin PCs tend to have is that they are often one-dimensional. Their personality is 'paladin'.

Basically, don't be like that. Give your paladin something else to hang his/her hat on. Neil from Greg Keyes' Kingdoms of Thorn and Bone series is one of my favourite literary paladins - he's a Viking paladin. Brienne from Song of Ice and Fire is only debatably a paladin, but her hook is that she's a ugly woman who seeks worth and self-esteem through service and honour. Komawara from the Initiate Brother is a fantasy-samurai-analog paladin (another alternate-culture paladin!), a warrior who begins to aspire to a measure of paladinness due to exposure to the horrors of a major war.

Basically, paladins become paladins for a reason. They want to make the world a better place, for instance. Or something less direct than that. But when it comes to their everyday behavior, it's worth thinking back to that original 'why' decision they made. Is the behaviour something that the paladin, given their REASONS for being a paladin, could be expected to countenance? Does it go against what they hope to achieve by being a paladin?

Too often I think a paladin's code is seen as an inconvenient straightjacket, an annoying restriction on freedom of action. Better to instead look on it as the embodiment of what the PALADIN believes, not just as the strictures of his/her faith. The paladin has looked at the world, seen what they think needs to be improved about it, and has made the informed decision to live in a certain way in order to help that come about. That's what the code is about.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Book recommendations from over here: The Deed of Paksenarrion by Elizabeth Moon and Curse of Chalion and Paladin of Souls by Lois McMaster Bujold.

But basically start off with the idea that a Paladin is a thoroughly decent person prepared to put themselves on the line to protect others whether or not they have met them. And who always tries to do what they consider right irrespective of reward. Numerically detailed codes are missing the point.

 

[Rechan]

I agree with Humble Minion - a paladin with some personality flaws or quirks are interesting. Or one who has internal conflict. Like being tempted to do the wrong thing/tempted with dark power, or being a reformed somethingorother and trying to atone for it (Idea: child of cultists, thus trying to either improve the family name or atone for the weight of the parents' sins).

Or they could have a little vice in their virtue. I like the idea of a womanizing paladin, or one with a drug habit.

My favorite paladins are Michael from the Dresden Files, and Lancelot. They lead by example, but act humble and kind while their actions are bold.

 

[Umbran]

Neil from Greg Keyes' Kingdoms of Thorn and Bone series is one of my favourite literary paladins - he's a Viking paladin.

I think he's far more a Scot than a Viking. I mean, look at the full name - Neil MeqVren. How is that not "Neil MacVren", really?

But, otherwise, I agree entirely. He's an excellent example of a paladin that winds up with internal conflicts because he's also a person.

 

[Agamon]

I'm playing a Paladin/Ranger in a PF Kingmaker game. Long story, short concerning his background, he's not fond of bandits. At the end of the last session, the strict, cold, to-the-point cavalier played judge, jury and executioner to a lone surrendering bandit of a group of them that ambushed us, hanging him from a tree.

I think the cavalier was maybe trying to get a rise out of my paladin, but the way he sees it, if he was a farmer instead of a bandit, that wouldn't have happened to him.

As has been said many times, Lawful Good does not mean Lawful Stupid.

 

[GSHamster]

If a lone, low level paladin happens upon a vampire attacking a girl, what does he do? He can attack the vampire, allowing the girl to escape, but because he is not powerful enough to kill the vampire, he will die and it will live to kill again. Or he could retreat, unfortunately sacrificing the girl, but by gather help and hunting the vampire down, he ensures the vampire will be vanquished.

I strongly disagree with this. A paladin must have faith. Faith in something larger than himself. Faith that if he does what is right and just, it will be for the best. Faith that the girl he chooses to save is worth his sacrifice.

I cannot think of a single paladin in fiction who would walk away. Michael Carpenter from the Dresden Files would not. Dresden himself (who has the soul of a paladin, in my view, for all that he is a wizard) chose to start a war with the Red Court of Vampires to save a single woman.

Elizabeth Moon's Paksennarion (in what is probably the Crowning Moment of Awesome for a paladin)

Spoiler

hands herself over to the Thieves Guild to be publicly tortured and raped, in order to save some hostages, and ultimately redeem the Thieves Guild through her sacrifice.

"Arvid, there may have been another way to save Phelan: I don't know. Paladins don't know everything; we only know where we must go. But think of this: was there any other way to save the Thieves Guild?"
He stared at her, mouth open like any yokel's. "Thieves Guild," he said finally. "What does Gird care about the Thieves Guild?"
"I don't know," said Paks. "But he must care something, to spend a paladin's pain on it . . ."

Faith and sacrifice are intimately interwined for a paladin. A paladin chooses to sacrifice, and has to have faith that his sacrifice is worthwhile.

 

[haakon1]

I strongly disagree with this. A paladin must have faith. . . . Faith that if he does what is right and just, it will be for the best. Faith that the girl he chooses to save is worth his sacrifice.

I cannot think of a single paladin in fiction who would walk away.

Faith and sacrifice are intimately interwined for a paladin. A paladin chooses to sacrifice, and has to have faith that his sacrifice is worthwhile.

I would NOT argue about such issues at the gaming table. D&D isn't philosophy class.

While I tend to agree with you, there are circumstances under which the greater good is more important than individual -- especially more important than the paladin, but also sometimes more important than innocents. I believe the AD&D DMG more or less quoted utilitarianism "the greatest good for the greatest number" in describing LG. That's the difference to CG, which I think would say the individual is paramount.

As an example of "greatest good for the greatest number" situation and an LG decision to not intervene, in the Vault of the Drow, we discovered slaves of the Drow, prisoners from our homeland. We could have freed them (temporarily), but it would have given away our presence in the Drow city, likely (unless our DM was being a wimp, which he never was) to result in a TPK, and as a result, a failure to save our homeland. We just gritted our teeth and moved out, more determined to complete the mission and destroy the threat, once and for all. (I wasn't playing a paladin then, but we were mostly LG, and another guy did have a paladin.)

 

[Agamon]

Exactly. Possibly sacrifice himself, of course. Possibly sacrifice a mission where the greater good is at stake? That's not smart.

 

[JDragon]

A big thanks to everyone for the great ideas and feedback, this is exactly what I'm looking for. Please keep it coming.

Umbran - I'm not looking for game specific rules, just stuff for role playing a Paladin in general so I see no reason to move it at this point. Thanks for the offer though.

I have not had a chance to read the Players Guide for the campaign but plan to in the next few days, as soon as work and school mellow out some.


I like the ideas of coming up with a code, as well as a personality beyond I'm a paladin.

The examples of Micheal Carpenter and Brienne were very helpful since I'm familiar with both.

I think with this campaign the big picture view / outlook will be important as well and I will need to make sure I have some thoughts in mind with that as well.


As for why I picked a Paladin, is strictly to expand my role playing. In the 25+ years I have been playing I don't think I have ever played a Paladin and maybe only 1 or 2 LG characters, so I thought it would be interesting. Plus I figure if I'm going to do it, jumping feet first in to a campaign like this one would be the way to go.

I plan to post what kind of stuff I come up with for my code, etc as I develop it, please post any suggestions /feedback you have on what I come up with.

Thanks

JD