On me? Greater Reflection shield and mettle, on someone else?, either bull rush the mage then slaughter him or use the Emergency Ranged Weapon, like a repeating crossbow. Also, I've seen around Crusaders are great for making gishes, especially Sorcerer, I think it is mana based but more Final Fantasy 3-like
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D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 ShielMaster/Crusader worth for tanking?
- Thread starter Luka
- Start date
On me? Greater Reflection shield and mettle, on someone else?, either bull rush the mage then slaughter him or use the Emergency Ranged Weapon, like a repeating crossbow. Also, I've seen around Crusaders are great for making gishes, especially Sorcerer, I think it is mana based but more Final Fantasy 3-like
Dandu
First Post
Doesn't work on Wall of Force or Blashmemy. Also, Great Reflection is an Epic level ability.
Ok, just... no. No. The game does not work like that. I can demonstrate why to you if you want.
what
then just mettle, anyways, already knew about how mages are overpowered here.
Bullrush, charge, whatever, why wouldn't it anyways?
Spells divided by level.
Dandu
First Post
Well, for starters, that tactic requires someone to be within charging range and have no way of evading you.
I'm still not sure what you are talking about when it comes to a crusader/sorcerer build.
Don't know
I mean sorcerers, they don't need to prepare spells so it's the most mana-like caster, aside from psions.
cjosephs1s
First Post
[MENTION=6685538]Luka[/MENTION] Ok first off what you have to realize is that D&D is not a video game and won't use the same rules or standards. I can fully appreciate the love of tanking (I was a pally MT for the BC and WotLK expansions for WoW). Now I'm not sure what MMORPG you played but Most of them use Aggro or Threat to determine who they will attack and that's all...its pretty mindless attacking. D&D doesn't always work like that as a lot of monsters have an intelligence score higher than 3 which means they can, to a certain degree, reason which toon they want to attack based on all sorts of factors. Generally its the most threatening to them or one they generally hate by nature. Sometimes its just a random roll of the dice to determine who gets attacked.
In MMORPGs you have all sorts of ways to increase armor and make it harder for monsters to hit you. In D&D for the most part its AC that determines if you get hit or not. Also in MMORPGs you try to mitigate the amount of damage you take and that's somewhat true but much harder as only damage reduction/energy resistance (a few classes have it and there are some feats that grant it but only a couple...other than that its magic items and gold is limited and things just don't drop) grants this.
Also many things form MMORPGs don't cross over to D&D so dont' use terms from them, use a general explaination of what they do. For instance you want something that allows you to do twice your weapon damage on your next attack. There might be a magic item out there or a spell that does this, or maybe just something that adds to damage. Now with this explaination I'm sure Dandu and emoplato can probably name a dozen magic items or spells that allow someone to do extra damage on their next attack.
Next it sounds like you need to read the Players Handbook so you know the rules of the game a little better. I'd also recommend reading the Dungeon Masters Guide too especially since you are a new player. These are your MAIN resources for rules. If you have questions about something feel free to post or ask another player or DM in your group how it works. Your group will be more than happy to help you in any way they can to make you a better player. And from my experience even simple questions on these forums get answered with good details as the authors aren't always 100% crystal clear on how things work.
Also everyone has their own opinions based on their gameplay experiences but some things hold true no matter the circumstances so you have to evaluate what other people have experienced and come up with a judgement call based on how your DM runs your campaign. For example a lot of people love using tactics like trip, bull rush, sunder, overrun and the likes in their fighter type builds...for the campaign I'm in and the way I build my toons and the monsters the DM throws at us these tactics aren't very useful when I'm giving up 5 attacks a round at around 200 damage per attack to simply knock somwone off their feet.
emoplato does have a good point about reach and controlling the area around you. Its very useful to get in those attacks of opportunity and with reach makes it easier. You dont' need a reach weapon to do it as their are magic items that effectively give you reach. 2 handed weapons are great for doing extra damage too. Here are some feats that combined with reach will give you a lot of control over the squares you threaten:
Mage Slayer (Complete Arcane)
Defensive Sweep (Players Handbook 2)
Supernatural Instincts (Fiendish Codex 2)
Combat Reflexes (Players Handbook)
Combine these feats with reach and a pair of CounterStrike Bracers (Magic Item Compendium) and you can control a great deal of what happens around you in combat or at least get in a lot of Attacks of Opportunity.
And yes they do work quite well as I'm currently using them with my toons build.
Hope this info helped and welcome to the wonderful world of D&D!
In MMORPGs you have all sorts of ways to increase armor and make it harder for monsters to hit you. In D&D for the most part its AC that determines if you get hit or not. Also in MMORPGs you try to mitigate the amount of damage you take and that's somewhat true but much harder as only damage reduction/energy resistance (a few classes have it and there are some feats that grant it but only a couple...other than that its magic items and gold is limited and things just don't drop) grants this.
Also many things form MMORPGs don't cross over to D&D so dont' use terms from them, use a general explaination of what they do. For instance you want something that allows you to do twice your weapon damage on your next attack. There might be a magic item out there or a spell that does this, or maybe just something that adds to damage. Now with this explaination I'm sure Dandu and emoplato can probably name a dozen magic items or spells that allow someone to do extra damage on their next attack.
Next it sounds like you need to read the Players Handbook so you know the rules of the game a little better. I'd also recommend reading the Dungeon Masters Guide too especially since you are a new player. These are your MAIN resources for rules. If you have questions about something feel free to post or ask another player or DM in your group how it works. Your group will be more than happy to help you in any way they can to make you a better player. And from my experience even simple questions on these forums get answered with good details as the authors aren't always 100% crystal clear on how things work.
Also everyone has their own opinions based on their gameplay experiences but some things hold true no matter the circumstances so you have to evaluate what other people have experienced and come up with a judgement call based on how your DM runs your campaign. For example a lot of people love using tactics like trip, bull rush, sunder, overrun and the likes in their fighter type builds...for the campaign I'm in and the way I build my toons and the monsters the DM throws at us these tactics aren't very useful when I'm giving up 5 attacks a round at around 200 damage per attack to simply knock somwone off their feet.
emoplato does have a good point about reach and controlling the area around you. Its very useful to get in those attacks of opportunity and with reach makes it easier. You dont' need a reach weapon to do it as their are magic items that effectively give you reach. 2 handed weapons are great for doing extra damage too. Here are some feats that combined with reach will give you a lot of control over the squares you threaten:
Mage Slayer (Complete Arcane)
Defensive Sweep (Players Handbook 2)
Supernatural Instincts (Fiendish Codex 2)
Combat Reflexes (Players Handbook)
Combine these feats with reach and a pair of CounterStrike Bracers (Magic Item Compendium) and you can control a great deal of what happens around you in combat or at least get in a lot of Attacks of Opportunity.
And yes they do work quite well as I'm currently using them with my toons build.
Hope this info helped and welcome to the wonderful world of D&D!
Dandu
First Post
Combat maneuvers have problems when you use them on creatures much bigger than you (quite a lot of the Monster Manual) or who have gear, as breaking your loot via Sunder is generally seen as a bad idea. A very bad idea.
Still, in terms of general usefulness, I believe it runs: Trip, Disarm, Grapple, Bull Rush, Overrun, Sunder.
Um... never mentioned Aggro or anything, just mentioned the Crusader Class, as it has maneuvers and skills that force the enemy on him
And played both Prot Warrior in WOW BC and Paladin in Lineage 2.
Wait, so AC isn't damage reduction but invulnerability?, I though it was simple Damage-reducing defense! didn't know! thanks!
Just though Soulshots came from here, sorry if it was confusing. But if it's spells then I don't think it would work just like in Lineage 2, there they're consumed on use, so much that they're bough on thousands, but the explosion is awesome.
I actually planified to use Stand Still and Crusader maneuvers to hold the enemies and get the shield AC, possibly a meteor hammer for Crowd Control, but Longsword as main when not having to deal with several. I just hate two-handed weapons as they turn fighters into all offense and no defense. And actually seen around some build:
Human: Combat Reflexes
1: Stand Still
3: Extra Granted Maneuver
6: Combat Expertise
9: Mage Slayer (Complete Arcane)
12: Robilar’s Gambit
15: Defensive Sweep (PHB2)
18: Overwhelming Assault (PHB2)
And thanks for the welcome
Last edited:
kitcik
Adventurer
Someday you will look back on this thread.
Jackinthegreen
Explorer
AC is not invulnerability. It is simply a stat that reduces the likelihood of being hit by certain attacks. Even when you have a high AC though, you can still be hit by opponents who roll a 20 on their dice, or target such things as your saves. Many things don't even need to target any of your defenses to screw you over.
I recommend you toss out EVERYTHING you've learned from other games (including the archetype of tank) when learning and playing D&D. Trying to compare them will screw you over big time, especially when it comes to learning how things work.
You might be able to get some practice in the Play By Post area both here and on other forums. If you haven't already, the official forums are a good place to help get acquainted with D&D. Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible
Welcome to the game.
I recommend you toss out EVERYTHING you've learned from other games (including the archetype of tank) when learning and playing D&D. Trying to compare them will screw you over big time, especially when it comes to learning how things work.
You might be able to get some practice in the Play By Post area both here and on other forums. If you haven't already, the official forums are a good place to help get acquainted with D&D. Whoops! Browser Settings Incompatible
Welcome to the game.
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