Some thoughts on 4e getting long in the tooth.

[Otterscrubber]

I had let my DDI subscription lapse awhile back after I had to change credit cards. So I haven't looked at changes lately. AFter reading this article I thought it might be a good idea to re-up my subscription. I couldn't bring myself to do it though. I realize everything I didn't like about 4e is still there and I will have a hard time getting my old gaming group back together because of the same reason. But I don't see any more need to give them $$ at this point. I think it's time they actually develop a better product and get some incentive to doing it. So when 5e comes out I will start spending my gaming money on WotC again. Until then they will have to make due with what I've spent on their products already.

Here is a list of things that would get me back into buying D&D products:

1) Revamped powers: Consolidated rules for using them that don't' feel so constraining. Don't let old powers disappear as you level. Don't create many powers with the same effect that only differ in description.
2) Increase focus on core classes/races. Stop cranking out crap books with lame new races (Mindshard and Wilden spring to mind) or random new splat classes that are freakish hybrids of more familiar ones. Don't take cool classes like rangers and fracture them into hyper specific builds that make it impossible to do core "ranger" things.
3) Make it relatively easy to make a new character without needing a library of books, items, feats that may or may not be out of date depending on character class and/or campaign setting.
4) Remove feats that are campaign specific. These were lame. I know some people love them and live by them, but it struck me as pandering and mass marketing.
5) Give characters more at will options, more encounter and fewer dailies. I think Essentials did a good job of testing this and I liked it a lot. Powers that could only be used 1/day made no sense. I could see having a pool of daily powers, and a pool of daily power usages a day, but it was ridiculous that you could only shoot your bow in that particular way 1/day. I get that you have to limit the super cool abilities somehow, but a better system needs to come in to help create that effect and still maintain some kind of correlation reality. I know trying to put "reality" into a game where elves exist and magic works sounds dumb, but I hope you know what I mean.

I liked Essentials, I thought it was a step in the right direction to simplify things and yet make them more interesting at the same time. A lot of powers were made better I thought, introduced more at-will type abilities/stances and concepts as well as some rules clarifications (like aiding another with a penalty for failure and a success rate based on the skill of the person you were trying to help), but I am disappointed that since essentials it has stalled. I'd like to see some new products out then I can start using my CC again without feeling like some kind of fanboy drone buying splatbooks because I'm tired of reading the old books I have.

Please give me something new WotC.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Best of luck on your future roleplaying endeavours. May 5E give you everything you want.

 

[Tallifer]

Best of luck on your future roleplaying endeavours. May 5E give you everything you want.

I wanted to give you experience, but all I can do is second your thoughts.

Meanwhile I will continue to enjoy Fourth Edition the way it is.

 

[Gundark]

Yeah at this stage in the game, best to look forward to 5e rather than expecting 4e to change.

 

[avin]

I disagree on what you said about races. While Mindshard suxs, stay forever on dwarfs/humans/elves is something I do not welcome for D&D.

I've burned out on 3.5 and 4E, so I'm waiting 5E for a change

 

[delericho]

2) Increase focus on core classes/races. Stop cranking out crap books with lame new races (Mindshard and Wilden spring to mind) or random new splat classes that are freakish hybrids of more familiar ones. Don't take cool classes like rangers and fracture them into hyper specific builds that make it impossible to do core "ranger" things.

If you're looking for 5e to be significantly different from either 3e or 4e, you're going to be disappointed. And one of the things that those editions have in common is that they're both extremely option-heavy. For 5e, WotC will pare down the option list for a while, but will very quickly move to "fill in the gaps", providing support for all the popular options from 3e and 4e.

In the specific cases of races, I can actually see a strong argument for moving the Shardmind in to the PHB1. The thing is, for various reasons the 'perfect' number of options at any given decision point is about 7 +/-1. So, the number of races in the PHB1 is about right.

But it is, quite frankly, utter madness to have 3 'elfy' races in the PHB1. "You can be an Elf, a more elfy Elf, or a less elfy Elf..." For 5e, they really should either re-combine the Elf and Eladrin, or at least defer the Eladrin until later. Likewise, the half-elf should either be a feat option, or again should be deferred until later.

Doing this opens up two spots for new races. And, rightly or wrongly, the two races that seem to have gained the most traction (other than the 'elfy' Drow) and the Shardmind and the Warforged. Those are probably the best two to go for.

(And that leaves a pretty good set, IMO: Human, Dragonborn, Dwarf, Elf, Halfling, Shardmind, Tiefling, Warforged. Lots of bases covered, lots of interesting choice, and each race also has a pretty clear and distinctive character.)

Please give me something new WotC.

For me, the reason 4e feels a bit long in the tooth is that WotC expanded the option list rather too quickly. Within 2 years of release, they had the PHB2 and 3, the first set of "Power" books, two "Adventurer's Vaults", the two key settings... Basically, they'd covered all their bases, and left themselves only various niches left to fill in. There wasn't really anywhere for them to go.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure how they can really fix this. Ideally, they could slow down the rate of player-side supplements, and instead focus on less mechanically-intensive materials: settings and adventures. The problem seems to be, though, that neither of these sells particularly well.

Maybe the solution lies with the DDI. If they basically abandon in-print player-side supplements (or perhaps slow the rate right down, to about 2 a year), but instead provided some new material every month via DDI, that would slow down the rate at which 5e saturates. At the same time, they can keep the value of DDI going by offering a brand new fully-fleshed out campaign setting, coupled with adventure paths and other adventures in eDungeon.

It might work. Alternately, WotC might well feel they're quite happy with the rate at which 4e saturated, followed with the Essentials revision. Maybe they will just do much the same with 5e (just with new mechanics).

I dunno. I'm kind of glad I'm not in charge of D&D right now!

 

[wingsandsword]

I'm no 4e fan, I've made no secret of this. However, if I did want to switch over to 4e, or at least learn it, the learning curve would be ridiculous by this point.

4e or Essentials? How many different books and revisions to get, not to mention having to subscribe to DDI to get all the information that many/most 4e groups are using. The barriers to entry are now quite substantial. With 1e or 2e, or even 3e and 3.5 you could pick up the "Core 3" and be done with it easily (most gamers I knew only had either a PHB or the "Core 3", and maybe one or 2 favorite splatbooks, it was GM's that collected them all). 4e seems like it was built to expect the players to use every book made and buy everything that came out. Good business model if it works, but you can burn out the player base real quick. There are only so many gaming dollars out there.

It's honestly troubling when an edition is less than 4 years old and it's "long in the tooth" and that daunting to newcomers.

1e lasted well over a decade before 2e came out. . . and 2e was made largely because of IP related business decisions by Williams.

2e lasted 11 years before it was replaced.

3e made it almost 8 years between 3e and 3.5e, and many fans still say it left too early.

After less than 4 years people are just sitting around waiting on 5e?

How many years between 5e and 6e?

 

[DEFCON 1]

The barriers to entry are now quite substantial. With 1e or 2e, or even 3e and 3.5 you could pick up the "Core 3" and be done with it easily (most gamers I knew only had either a PHB or the "Core 3", and maybe one or 2 favorite splatbooks, it was GM's that collected them all). 4e seems like it was built to expect the players to use every book made and buy everything that came out.

You can play 4E just as easily with the 'Core 3' as you could with any previous edition. There is no more expectation to use all the books as there was any time previous. Since you apparently have never learned how to play 4E, you might not have realized this fact. However, it is still true.

 

[Herobizkit]

You can play 4E just as easily with the 'Core 3' as you could with any previous edition. There is no more expectation to use all the books as there was any time previous.

Excepting, of course, that the online Character Builder includes ALL and EVERY current rules addition, edition, and inclusion to date... and you can't easily filter out what the DM says is not fair game for his campaign.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Excepting, of course, that the online Character Builder includes ALL and EVERY current rules addition, edition, and inclusion to date... and you can't easily filter out what the DM says is not fair game for his campaign.

That is really a problem with DDI, not 4E, and it is still possible to play 4E with no DDI, hard as some people find that to believe.

As with most posts like the OP's, I think he or she just needs to find a new game system. If you do not like 4E and 3.5 it is really unlikely that you will like 5E.