why would a SuperHero campaign need a sandbox?

[Janx]

exploring some new area/plane itself could be designed as a sandbox, but the main play space doesn't have to be a sandbox.

Smon's random tables could certainly name mega villans by name, and randomly generate their basic strategy. Which the GM would then flesh out the details.

I reckon the theory is, with the right tables, basic plot ideas are system generated and not just made up by GM. I use random tables to stimulate such ideas and force me to adapt to what the table said to write up the adventure about.

For myself:
I would have some tables handy to generate random minor crime, should the PCs go on patrol.

For a given session, I run about 4-6 hours worth of material. So I figure out what would work for the player's goals and write material to support pursuing that goal (stopping Magneto).

Since my sessions are short, I can generally predict what I'll need, and be able to stop when I hit a major deviation point (where the PCs are going in unexpected areas).


I also try not writing my material in a linear fashion. I document magneto's stats, allies and sites where he will be or places he will strike.

At that point, the PCs get some info on what might be going on, and I roll with whatever they choose to do to stop him. Maybe they look for Asteroid M and hit him at home. Maybe they try to predict what science places he'll hit next so they can stop him there.

What I don't do is make up the entire city, and assume the PCs need to wander everywhere and be prepared to have stuff happen. Stuff happens when I need it to happen to spur the PCs on to action or as a consequence of their choices.

All I need is:
"while you were on patrol in the warehouse district, you notice some suspicious activity"
"you get a call ont he Super HotLine for help, it's a monster attacking Metro City!"

 

[jaerdaph]

A very good question, Janx, and thank you for complimenting my maps.

In retrospect, sandbox was a poor choice of words on my part. There's a reason they are referred to as the Marvel and DC Universes - the action takes place not only in a central city but across the globe, across time, across space, the galaxy and the universe, through parallel universes and alternate realities, and within the very mind itself. Supers comic universes (and thus supers campaigns) would therefore require an infinite sandbox, if using the term as it is generally accepted in the RPG community.

Still, there are the Gotham Cities and Metropolises of the comic world, where superheroes make their first appearances and establish a home base. Freedom City and Millennium City are two prominent examples from supers RPGs. Perhaps then these cities are analogous to the fantasy campaign's central megadungeon, serving as the tent pole of the campaign.

This discussion is very interesting to me, because I just started a blog (for the ICONS Superpowered Roleplaying game) called Just Add Heroes where one of the things I want to do is build my supers urban campaign setting Grimm City that I eluded to in the original thread. So I've been thinking a lot lately about what makes a city come alive in a dynamic fashion. It's not just the buildings and streets (although urban development can dynamically change the landscape) but the people that live there and their agendas. It's the super villains and the supporting NPC cast (the mayor, the police commissioner e.g.) as well as the businesses and corporations, organizations and cults. And it's the Average Joes and Janes who get caught in the middle. So in building Grimm City over the coming weeks, I want to put people with agendas in place just as much as the location of City Hall or the local university. This is what they want, this is what they are going to try and do, unless somebody steps in to stop (or aid) them - the "just add heroes" central idea of the blog. So in that sense, it is like a sandbox, but it is also like a megadungeon tent pole - a central place where the heroes can set up base and the GM can "hang" adventures from - be they from within the existing "sandbox" or tacked on/shoehorned in (like published adventure modules).

Thank you everyone too for the food for thought.

 

[Azgulor]

I agree with Janx (I think), in that I think that the superhero genre is probably the one least amenable to sandbox play. Within their genre, superheroes are typically pretty reactive to events/criminals. That isn't to say it is ALWAYS true - maybe Daredevil wants to take on the kingpin rather than continually clean up the drug dealers on the street - but it seems to me to be more characteristic of superhero adventures than other genre.

Cheers

While I agree with this, many GMs do not do well with spontaneously coming up with setting details on the fly, especially if the setting is in a ficitonal setting or even a city which the GM isn't familiar with -- NY neighborhoods/districts are just names to me, for example.

I think a sandbox for a superhero game looks much different than a fantasy-RPG wilderness or city map.

I actually learned the value of this in something unrelated to RPGs. Back in the 90s, I was heavily into comic collecting and an avid Bat-title buyer/reader. One of the comic mags (now-defunct Wizard, I think?) had a Batman-focused issue. My primary reason for purchasing the comic was the inclusion of a map of Gotham City -- a reproduction of the one used by the Bat-writers at DC. Suddenly, my immersion & appreciation of individual issues increased dramatically, b/c I could see where stories were placed, why the Batmobile traversed a bridge, when the Batboat was a viable vehicle choice, etc.

As a comics reader was it necessary? Hell, no. But if I were a GM running a game set in Gotham City, hell YES.

Also, as evidenced by the success of products like Paizo's Kingmaker and video games like Arkham City & Skyrim, I think more and more gamers of all stripes are seeking more open world and less (dare I say it) "railroad"-story driven games.

It's also been my personal experience that modern, sci-fi, and super RPGs almost require a more open-ended sandbox approach. There are just too many possible ways to tackle a problem given the advanatages of technology, computers, vehicles, etc. When I've tried to "stick to the plot", my players react to it much like they react to the podracer scene in SW:epI --"why the hell are the Jedi going down this road, again when they could do any of the following...?"

YMMV.

 

[jaerdaph]

I actually learned the value of this in something unrelated to RPGs. Back in the 90s, I was heavily into comic collecting and an avid Bat-title buyer/reader. One of the comic mags (now-defunct Wizard, I think?) had a Batman-focused issue. My primary reason for purchasing the comic was the inclusion of a map of Gotham City -- a reproduction of the one used by the Bat-writers at DC. Suddenly, my immersion & appreciation of individual issues increased dramatically, b/c I could see where stories were placed, why the Batmobile traversed a bridge, when the Batboat was a viable vehicle choice, etc.

As a comics reader was it necessary? Hell, no. But if I were a GM running a game set in Gotham City, hell YES.

That's how I feel about maps (and even blueprints) from fictional works too. For me, it was anything Star Trek that I could get my hands on and take and use in my Star Trek roleplaying games. And I think maps help not only the GM but the players as well - they can visualize where they are, where things are in relation to one another, and better formulate plans and allocate their resources (just like you said - "hey, we can take the Batboat!").

 

[Jack7]

Janx, I think it depends upon exactly how one defines sandbox, and how one's superhero game is structured.

If one defines Sandbox as free choice of whatever interests you in any direction, that's one kind of Sandbox. If you define Sandbox as a choice of areas and destinations or missions or assignments, but only limited information is available on any particular locale or assignment, then it depends on exactly what are the goals and objectives of the Heroes, and are they prioritized as to potential importance or simply reactionary.

There is a third kind of sandbox we play because of the nature of our Superhero Game, that I'll explain in a moment. But I think an awful lot depends on what are the exact mission parameters of the Heroes/Superheroes? Is their mission and purpose to fight any and all types of crime or threat, or just specialized ones that the local citizens, local police, or perhaps state and federal authorizes cannot easily counter?

My Modern Hero/Superhero game works like this: The player characters were exploring some underground areas of New York City (they were vadding 19th and early 20th century locales). While there they discovered what looked like several caskets and booths, some of them very ornate and some of them being of crystal or glass. Each had a peculiar Glyph or symbol upon it.

When the player characters either touched the Symbol, or opened and entered the booth, or touched someone else who had already done so, they fell unconscious. When they awoke each was a different person, and each had peculiar powers and abilities (some of what would be called Superhero powers) but they were initially unaware of what those powers might be or who they were. Others did not have superhero powers but had extraordinary capabilities that few others possessed. Some seemed to have no powers, or fluctuating or ever changing/evolving powers.

Since then the characters have operated making discoveries, slowly learning who they might be, both as Heroes and their possible secret identities (as well as some of their likely cover identities), who they might have previously worked for (or not), and who may or may not have been their previous opposition/enemies. They have also been trying to figure out exactly what they did, and form where they may have operated. They have found a few safehouses, a couple of what seem to have been small or portable operational bases, a weird ship which may have been their transport (still don't know how to use it correctly), and several possible ideas as to where their main base may have been. (As far as they know though it could have been someone else's base.)

Since they have so little in the way of real and reliable background information they discover clues about different things and then decide among themselves what may or may not be important and what may or may not be worth investigating.

While doing this they often have encounters, some seemingly random, others possibly not, and they must then try and determine if such encounters are more or less important than what they were initially trying to discover or explore.

It's not a typical Superhero Game I know, but it also plays well as a mystery, a game of exploration and adventure, and occasionally as a game of espionage.

I guess what I'm trying to say is this; if all superheroes operate in the same way then the milieu may just be a different version of the same place, but if the Heroes operate differently or don't even know how they are supposed to operate, then different approaches might be appropriate to the context of the milieu.

I think though, that even given the more or less typical superheroes, the patrol and operational inclinations of a Batman or Spiderman or Daredevil would be very different than the patrol and operational methods of a Justice League, or an Avengers Team. Scale and mission Parameters would vary greatly in those instances.

Depends on what they were doing, investigating, attempting, or what their objectives would be. Batman might simply want to bust up any crime on a particular patrol beat, and make a show in the area of doing it to frighten criminals, but while operating on the Justice League he might want to infiltrate without being detected a Lex Luthor industrial site, or track down the creator of Amazo.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

But generically speaking, a good superhero party has little choice over what plot hook to bite.

In a big city, a hero group will have LOTS of choices because:

1) it is probable there are oth heroes at work, and/or

2) even without other heroes, there will be at least a few occasions when more than one thing in the city would be worthy of their attention.

Because of this, when I do sandboxy supers games, the heroes always have some kind of newsfeed or connections that flood them with options.

 

[jaerdaph]

While thinking about the "patrol" motif seen with early Batman and Daredevil, it dawned on me that one of my favorite group of comic heroes, the Fantastic Four, are at the opposite end of the spectrum where trouble just seems to land literally at their doorstep.

 

[jaerdaph]

Jack7 - that was a nice break down analysis of sandbox types, but I need to spend some more XP before I can give you any more...

 

[jaerdaph]

Because of this, when I do sandboxy supers games, the heroes always have some kind of newsfeed or connections that flood them with options.

Yes - and the newsfeed definitely plays an integral role in most supers comics.

Brainstorming some example newsfeeds:

1. The hero has a secret identity as a reporter, cop or other law enforcement, or as a first responder and has instant access to info.
2. The hero has a love interest, informant or other connection to someone who is one of the above (e.g. Commissioner Gordon via the Batphone).
3. A powerful device or supercomputer that monitors "crime" or "activity" (e.g. the Batcomputer or Cerebro).
4. The Old Fashioned or Mundane Way - police scanners, newspapers, radio, television, the Internet.

 

[Leatherhead]

It's not a superhero game if you can't fly down and rescue a cat out of a tree. Encounters like that are far more sandboxesque than not.

That's not to say you can't run a huge arc in a sandbox, because you can.

Oh, and a supervilian game demands a sandbox style, badguy stories are just way more fun when they come from your players hairbrained plots