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Divided gaming group - looking for help.

Its been my experience with comparing products that have 2 camps, that a logical comparison doesn't really work with either camp.

Barring some horrible situation where a camp is passionate about a truly horrible product that nobody in their right mind ever uses for the job, most of these camps form around products that BOTH have been used successfully for virtually the same situation.

Frex: Windows vs. Linux. For every business running on Windows, you can find the same business running on Linux. And each will cite pro's and con's that support their position. Yet somehow, their competitor has not been horribly impeded by the supposed con's.

I've been involved with projects, involving Linux people and Windows people and getting the new system to work always involves the "we want our platform!" comparison argument.

You've got the same thing, except it's 3e vs 4e.

The problem always gets pushed to management. That's You. The GM.

Management's criteria is always:
what are we already using?
what have we already got a majority stake in?
What do my golfing buddies use?

At best, the decision will be based on, what do we have the most existing systems in place on. For business, this means do we have more Linux servers than Windows? For Gaming, it means, what books do you already own and what's the majority headcount of people who know it?

At worst, the manager will look at what the rest of the industry is using or claims is the best, and choose that.

For the purposes of solving the actual problem (running Facebook.com or playing an RPG), it doesn't really matter. Pick one and you can solve the problem. You might do some workarounds, but it turns out EVERY product is not a perfect fit for your unique situation.

For the OP, it's all about being nice and diplomatic. When you do make your choice, do NOT go into any comparison reasons. That's just the arguing phase again, and the losing side will just side contradictions to it.

Your business reason for you decision should be:
what books do you already own and are familiar with as GM?

You announce your decision as "Regardless, of what product I choose, I would like all of you to put aside your concerns and join my game so we can all have a good time together. As friends, it is more important that we can do a common activity, than the exact details of that activity. I have chosen ProductX because it is what I am comfortable in running to deliver a solid experience to my players. Please let me know if you willl be able to participate."

Note that you don't announce the version first. You appeal to their sense of group, not their sense of favorite product.

Unless you are trying to GM 2e in a community of not-2e players, as GM you hold the keys to the game. Anybody who does not get on board, loses out. Don't be a jerk about it, but the GM has to hold the final decision, because he's the guy doing the work. And his decision should be based on what he can run well, not what the players claim they want.
 

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Assuming you meet regularly, I would run two mini-adventures that take about 2 sessions each. One for Pathfinder and one for 4E. Decide for yourself which you like afterwards, since you're the DM. You can even have one of the PF people DM PF for the group, and a 4E person DM 4E for the group - that way, you can sit back & watch both as a player. (hopefully, both sides are okay with this small step)

Of course, if you're only meeting once a month, or less frequently, then that method is going to take you 4 months or more to decide. In that case, the only real way to settle it is pistols at high noon.
 

Gods, almost exactly one year ago I used Pathfinder as the compromise game between five players that liked 3.5 and one player that wanted 4e, or at least not 3.5....

Yeah, not much of a compromise, was it? But, really, he wanted a game that his older siblings had not played yet. Plus, I think that he wanted to DM and his siblings really did not trust him to be any good at it.

He joined my Christmas game this year without a quibble, and I noticed that he had his own Core rules, so I guess it was not completely horrible for him. I just hope that his brother and sister eventually let him run some game or another. :erm:

I talked DMing with him, a bit, and he really does not sound like he will be a bad GM. If he is willing to compromise with them on the system then I think that they could all have a good time. I gave him a copy of Skull & Bones, which I think will fit his evil plans, and should be easy to convert to Pathfinder.

There is just something about running your own game. It is worth negotiating for.

I know that his sister has also been bit by the DMing bug, if she succumbs then all three will be running games. I like to see a new family tradition aborning - mother, father, all three kids....

Apropos of not much, just something that crossed my mind while the primer dries....

The Auld Grump
 

We definitely want to play D&D, so I dont think we'll be adopting a different game altogether. We all like the D&D cosmology, monsters, races, etc. It truly is a decision between 3.5 and 4th edition D&D.

Though I'm not completely sold, and I've heard some things about it that horrify me, I am leaning towards giving 4th Edition a try.

I've game mastered a little 2nd edition, a whole lot of 3rd, and no 4th. However 4th seems, on the surface, to have fixed many of the problematic parts of 3rd and is better suited for groups with limited play time and DMs with limited prep-time.

Thank you all for your insights.
 

We definitely want to play D&D, so I dont think we'll be adopting a different game altogether. We all like the D&D cosmology, monsters, races, etc. It truly is a decision between 3.5 and 4th edition D&D.

Though I'm not completely sold, and I've heard some things about it that horrify me, I am leaning towards giving 4th Edition a try.

I've game mastered a little 2nd edition, a whole lot of 3rd, and no 4th. However 4th seems, on the surface, to have fixed many of the problematic parts of 3rd and is better suited for groups with limited play time and DMs with limited prep-time.

Thank you all for your insights.
Good luck with the game!

The decreased prep time is a strong selling point for 4e - I hope that someday somebody ports the NPC creation rules from FantasyCraft to Pathfinder. I do not mind the time spent building NPCs and critters, but for a sandbox the ability to scale would be very nice. It made my Fallout sandbox much, much easier.

The Auld Grump
 

We definitely want to play D&D, so I dont think we'll be adopting a different game altogether. We all like the D&D cosmology, monsters, races, etc. It truly is a decision between 3.5 and 4th edition D&D.

Though I'm not completely sold, and I've heard some things about it that horrify me, I am leaning towards giving 4th Edition a try.

I've game mastered a little 2nd edition, a whole lot of 3rd, and no 4th. However 4th seems, on the surface, to have fixed many of the problematic parts of 3rd and is better suited for groups with limited play time and DMs with limited prep-time.

Thank you all for your insights.

4E is much easier on the DM than 3E/3.5E. Pathfinder fixed some of the DM issues, but not all of them, IMHO.
 


We definitely want to play D&D, so I dont think we'll be adopting a different game altogether. We all like the D&D cosmology, monsters, races, etc. It truly is a decision between 3.5 and 4th edition D&D.
Even within D&D, there's always the option of a retro-clone (Castles and Crusades, Swords and Wizardry, etc).
 

I would choose an adventure for the group (Or world, whatever) and explain to them that this world or game concept just plain works better in one system than the other (As I have seen that in my own games) and ask them to agree to play the system.

Hopefully your group is reasonable enough. If not, it really is the loss of those who are too hardheaded to agree. Be polite, but in the end, just end up saying, 'This is what we are going to play, I hope you will join in.'

I think that is the best way to handle things.

Of course, if you have a different game you think everyone will like (and you wantto run) thatn that is an option.
 


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