D&D 5E Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition OGL?

[xechnao]

Definitely, 3.xe being published under the OGL has had some positive effects for Wotc, as it has also had some negative effects for Wotc.
It is not that the OGL can be only good or only bad.

Now, one has to weight how much positive, how much negative that was, balance them out and make an informed decision whether the net effect of the OGL is a positive or negative one.

Personally, I believe that the negative effects outweight the positive ones, judging by what we have seen regarding Pathfinder and the OSR. Also, contrary to what some have suggested, even if 4e were OGL, I doubt that we would not have seen something like Pathfinder or that 4e would have been more successful in the long term. The primary reason for success or failure is the game itself, regarding the expectations of its fans. If it is what fans want it to be, the game will succeed. If it is not, then not so much.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

...

The Classic Play Books by Mongoose, Vistas by Green Ronin, Stone to Steel by Monkeygod, Steam & Steel by E N Publishing, Sorcery & Steam by Fantasy Flight, Relics & Rituals by Sword & Sorcery Studios, etc..

Ones that started as supplements included Spycraft by AEG, and I believe the first D20 version of Babylon 5 by Mongoose.

The Auld Grump

Hmm, most of those I was unaware of, now I wonder how much was that my personal biases and how much was that they were not visible in front of me?

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Hmm, most of those I was unaware of, now I wonder how much was that my personal biases and how much was that they were not visible in front of me?

Stores do not always stock things evenly - if your FLGS didn't stock them, then perhaps they were not there to see?

Me, I paid at least as much attention to supplements, perhaps more.

The Auld Grump

 

[Dausuul]

So, fair enough, what exactly are you talking about when you claim a 5E GSL could work? What's removed from the current GSL? Or to come at it from the other direction, what restrictions would you add to the OGL?

Well, I don't know what 5E is going to look like, so I can't get into specifics there. But taking 4E as an example, the DSL would be pretty much like the OGL, except that the powers, feats, and race and class definitions in the Player's Handbook (and PHB2, PHB3, Martial Powers, etc.) would be product identity, along with the actual game rules such as combat and chargen.

On the other hand, you're free to reprint the statblocks for most monsters and possibly magic items--the stuff you need for adventures. Conveniently, 4E NPCs don't use the same rules as PCs any more, so your ability to stat up an NPC wizard is not hampered by being unable to use PC material.

You are the guy, afterall, who introduced the need for direct evidence for opinions to be proven into this discussion.

What I said was, "I find it hard to imagine how it could be proven without detailed access to their market research--how can you disentangle the effect of that one portion of the OGL from everything else going on?" I do not have access to WotC's market research, so I'm no more able to disentangle it than you.

I can point to statements by all of the major 3PPs around the time of 4E's release, indicating that they wanted to get on board with 4E but could not accept the terms of the GSL. This solution would eliminate all of the problems they cited; restrictions on cross-publishing, revocability of the license, and so forth. So I think a license of this sort would help to get 3PPs on board.

If they find there isn't any money in supporting 5E, of course, they'll get off again. But if that's the case, I don't believe opening up 5E completely would change anything.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Hmmm, an odd thought - if not for the OGL then it is likely 4e would not be the game that it is today.

Many of the changes made o 4e were likely done to distance the game from terms that were used in the OGL.

Without the OGL, those changes would not have been necessary, and likely would not have occurred.

So even I can see one downside to the OGL.

More seriously, I think that 3e would have tanked much faster without the OGL - it was carried, in part, by the 3PP that the GSL has disenfranchised.

The Auld Grump

 

[Mark CMG]

If someone "reports" the OP (I don't think you can report your own post) then this can be shuffled over to the New Horizons Forum. (Thanks!)

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

If someone "reports" the OP (I don't think you can report your own post) then this can be shuffled over to the New Horizons Forum. (Thanks!)

We'll just see about that!

As far as 5e being OGL, I think it would be tremendously good for Wizards, like it was tremendously good for them with 3e and it has been tremendously good for Paizo, and it would be tremendously good for both the community and the industry as a whole. It's really the direction that we all need to be moving in if we wish to survive in the face of piracy and competition from increasingly sophisticated video games.

But that's not the direction that Wizards is going to go. Not right now. The OGL didn't do what they wanted it to do-- shuffle all the low-volume, low-margin stuff onto 3PP-- so they pretty much got rid of everyone who thought it was a good idea in the first place. To my admittedly very limited knowledge, there isn't a single serious advocate of the OGL in WotC management right now, and the Hasbro people were opposed to the OGL all along.

edit: Nope. You can report your own posts just fine. I've reported this post, so hopefully the mods will see that it needs to be moved to New Horizons. Also, hopefully, they won't ban me for the incessant trolling and asshattery that I reported myself for.

 

[Mark CMG]

edit: Nope. You can report your own posts just fine. I've reported this post, so hopefully the mods will see that it needs to be moved to New Horizons. Also, hopefully, they won't ban me for the incessant trolling and asshattery that I reported myself for.

Better you than me!


(Thanks, VK!)

 

[Nellisir]

I don't see WotC moving back to the OGL, however much I might desire it. I think they will loosen up the GSL, but not nearly as much as the OGL. Right or wrong, I think many in WotC identify the 3pp game systems based off the d20 system as harmful to D&D, and the newest iteration of the license will aim to cut those off while still encouraging fan-based creations.

Something as simple as putting a page and font size restriction in the new license could have some success, ie derived products could not exceed 32 pages (plus cover), and a minimum font size of 8 (whatever that is in picas and various measurements). I don't think Arcana Unearthed would have ever gone to press if it had to be printed and sold as 10 different products.

 

[Nylanfs]

Well There are things I both like and dislike about the OGL and GSL. I like the GSL in that it references the items in books, instead of the separate SRD from the OGL. Which is great because then 3PP publishers don't have to wait until the errata FINALLY gets into the SRD.

Of course the original GSL has the poison pill (and several other objectionable) clauses.

One thing that I would really, REALLY like to see , if there is a future OGL/GSL for 5e, is something like the following clause.

"Every publisher must CLEARLY identify OGC content that they use in sourcebooks and the original source. This may be listed on a business website as opposed to listed in each sourcebook."

This is a direct result of my work with PCGen, there are so many publishers using other's works, there should be a direct way to ensure that the original creator is recognized for their work. This way it makes my job easier, AND the addided benifit of making the Sec. 15 of the OGL page WAY clearer.