I don't DM 4th edition, but when I do

[FireLance]

I want the rust monster's attacks to be capable of destroying weapons and armor. Just not instantly and not with leftover residuum. Watching your weapon slowly rot away at each touch of the foul beast you are trying to dispatch and hoping you can kill it before it finishes its meal sounds more exciting to me. If you suceed, then the party crafter can help repair your item.

I want a medusa to be able to turn you to stone. Just not instantly. Feeling your joints start to stiffen, feeling your weapon arm getting heavy, the crackling of stone slowly tracing its way across your skin. That's exciting to me.

Heh. In my over 20 years of DMing D&D, I think I've only ever used a rust monster once, in 4e, in a fear-themed dungeon that was a deliberate homage to old school style play.

That dungeon also featured a medusa with a slowly petrifying gaze - slowed and 10 ongoing damage (save ends); first failed save: immobilized and 10 ongoing damage (save ends); second failed save: restrained and 10 ongoing damage (save ends); third failed save: stunned and 10 ongoing damage (save ends). If a creature under the petrification effect was reduced to 0 hit points, it became permanently petrified.

 

[Wormwood]

In fact, when players saw a Rust Monster in earlier editions, they just reached in to their golf bag and pulled out an expendable weapon to use instead.

Say what you will about 4e's magic economy, but one thing I don't miss about the good ol' days was lugging around bags of holding filled to bursting with magic items nobody wanted---or needed.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Also, there is a ten level difference between when a +1 item is expected per the math and when a +3 item is expected. That is a major loss. We're talking losing out on +2 to attack (the equivalent of being constantly marked, by everything), +2 damage (not too much of a loss, admittedly, but that stacks up quick), and +2[W] on a crit (that's not too likely to come up often, but boy do you wish you had it when it does come up).

The whole idea of expected + items at scheduled intervals makes me sad.

Needing to give out magical poop as loot because a monster ate your shiny sword just runs against the grain of adventuring spirit.

The monster ate your sword? Go beat something up and win another one.

When Frodo went to destroy the one ring at Mt. Doom was he expecting to get a one-ring sized bag of magic poop to ease the pain of destroying the precious?

Magic items can go as mysteriously as they appear. Figuring themas a given into "the math" makes them just gear of varying quality instead of magic items.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Say what you will about 4e's magic economy, but one thing I don't miss about the good ol' days was lugging around bags of holding filled to bursting with magic items nobody wanted---or needed.

I didn't have that problem in 3,X either - having the rules handy for making your own items, or having them commissioned, handled that nicely.

Gods, I remember folks carrying around 'disposable' magic items forever in AD&D, because you might need it later. Being able to brew/scribe/forge their own got rid of that in a hurry.

Now using bags of holding to cart around the stuff needed to make items.... And it is always the same few players that want to make their own items, not that the rest of the party complains....

The Auld Grump

 

[The Human Target]

There should be a jerky monster that turns leather and hide armor into delicious jerky and eats it.

Also, a cellulose monster that eats wooden weapons.

I do this in the name of balance.

If you're walking around using wooden weapons, you're already hurting yourself enough.

 

[The Human Target]

Sounds like the start of a great adventure, to find someone to repair his hammer. How did that go?

He was heartbroken. Switched to a different weapon for a while. Used the residuum on some other things.

Ended up finding a decent replacement at the end of the Tomb of Horrors.

I was all for finding a way to give it back to him, but it just never worked out that way.

 

[Mark CMG]

He was heartbroken. Switched to a different weapon for a while. Used the residuum on some other things.

Ended up finding a decent replacement at the end of the Tomb of Horrors.

I was all for finding a way to give it back to him, but it just never worked out that way.

That's too bad. Lucky to get through the Tomb of Horrors though! I'll bet there's some cool gaming memories in that adventure!

 

[Number48]

You have to remember that Gary was a kinda jerk DM. Rust monsters, ethereal filchers and rot grubs are a way of attacking the player instead of the character. "Ah, this monster lets me reach across the table, take your character sheet and spit on it." It was also how you avoiding admitting responsibility for giving away magic items that didn't belong there.

There might be a place for a rust monster in an adventure, sure. But using it as a "gotcha" is the old DM-as-the-player's-enemy thing. If the characters have even just 2 rounds to know what's going to happen and get a little prepared, then maybe. Maybe.

Any monster or encounter that stands a good chance of a player standing up and saying, "eff this, I'm going home" is not productive for a game. Old-schoolers talk about not coddling players but at the end of the day, you can't MAKE players put up with a lousy game.

 

[The Human Target]

You have to remember that Gary was a kinda jerk DM. Rust monsters, ethereal filchers and rot grubs are a way of attacking the player instead of the character. "Ah, this monster lets me reach across the table, take your character sheet and spit on it." It was also how you avoiding admitting responsibility for giving away magic items that didn't belong there.

There might be a place for a rust monster in an adventure, sure. But using it as a "gotcha" is the old DM-as-the-player's-enemy thing. If the characters have even just 2 rounds to know what's going to happen and get a little prepared, then maybe. Maybe.

Any monster or encounter that stands a good chance of a player standing up and saying, "eff this, I'm going home" is not productive for a game. Old-schoolers talk about not coddling players but at the end of the day, you can't MAKE players put up with a lousy game.

I mean I really do think there is a balance.

Set backs are cool and create drama- Luke gets his hand cut off and loses his lightsaber.

The important thing to remember is that he sooner or later gets a cool robot hand and a green lightsaber.

 

[Wormwood]

Set backs are cool and create drama- Luke gets his hand cut off and loses his lightsaber.

The important thing to remember is that he sooner or later gets a cool robot hand and a green lightsaber.

In game-time, he even gets them in time for the next encounter