Are you already integrating elements of 5E into your game?

[Mercurius]

The D&D Next info coming in has got me excited and thinking about integrating elements of it into game play, even before playtesting begins. I realize that this thread would probably make more sense in another couple months, but thought I'd get the ball rolling now. Anyone else thinking along the same line?

I'll start. I’m transitioning over from 4E to Pathfinder and am thinking of hybridizing Pathfinder with 5E, although at this point I don’t know Pathfinder well enough to do so. But here’s what I have in mind:

• Ability Scores as Skills – Being more flexible with use of Abilities as broad skill groups. Maybe “automatic successes” for non-pressured skill use, if score is high enough (as I believe Monte described). Perhaps do away with actual Skills altogether, and instead have player-decided specialty skills based upon background/theme, race, and class.
• Ability Scores as Saves – This seems easier to implement with Pathfinder than 4E, as Pathfinder saves are d20 + Saving Throw. While I like the terms Fortitude, Will, and Reflex, there really isn’t much reason to have a layer added onto Abilities.
• Themes – setting-specific themes that give actual mechanical benefits in addition to flavor. I would probably just co-design these with each individual player during character creation.
• Scaling – I don’t know Pathfinder well enough, but I’d like to soften the curve of scaling ala 5E’s design goals. Not sure how I’d do this but in BECMI language, I’d like to see levels 1-5 be the equivalent of “Basic,” 6-10 “Expert,” 11-20 “Companion,” 21-30 “Master,” and 31-40 “Immortal” (Demi-god level), although I prefer the language Adventurer, Heroic, Paragon, Epic, and Immortal). As with 4E, there would be larger jumps at new tiers.
• Equipment/Magic Items – The basic goal would be to take mundane items useful for more than a couple levels, and magic items rarer. Again, I’m thinking more in terms of what I didn’t like in 4E and don’t know Pathfinder well enough, but maybe I'd make most magic items either “unfold” in power over time, or characters have to be of a certain level to "unpack" the bonus, maybe +1/5 levels (i.e. a level 1-5 character can use +1 of the bonus, levels 6-10 +2, etc).
• Electrum! – Don’t know if this will really make it into 5E, but someone mentioned the good old electrum pieces. I might want to include, if only for nostalgia’s sake.

Looking back over that list, I’m thinking a lot of that is more inspired by 5E than outright derived from it, but that works for the purposes of this thread. What about you?

 

[amerigoV]

I know you were looking for bridge to 5e - but what you describe sounds alot like the Dragon Age RPG.

(well, no electrum).

 

[Ahnehnois]

It's an interesting thought. When 4e was announced, I had always hoped to at least mine it for ideas, but then I read it. I may look and see if I can add any 5e concepts to my game if I like them, but I haven't yet, and it'll be a while before I run D&D again.

 

[Tonguez]

• Ability Scores as Skills – Being more flexible with use of Abilities as broad skill groups. Maybe “automatic successes” for non-pressured skill use, if score is high enough (as I believe Monte described). Perhaps do away with actual Skills altogether, and instead have player-decided specialty skills based upon background/theme, race, and class.
• Ability Scores as Saves – This seems easier to implement with Pathfinder than 4E, as Pathfinder saves are d20 + Saving Throw. While I like the terms Fortitude, Will, and Reflex, there really isn’t much reason to have a layer added onto Abilities.

• 
  
  
  The homebrew system I was toying with before D20 came out did exactly this. It was a 2d10 percentage based system with everything (including combat) based on Ability check vs Diificulty. The abilities were Physical, Agility, Dexterity, Perception, Intelligence, Intuition, Presence (Charisma)Saves worked in exactly the same way (it allowed physical checks to lift gates, agility checks vs attacks, physical checks vs damage and intuition checks vs fear effects).
  
  taking up 3x I houseruled a similar mechanic - ie you can have any skill as long as you can link it to a ability check.
  
  

  [*]Equipment/Magic Items – The basic goal would be to take mundane items useful for more than a couple levels, and magic items rarer. Again, I’m thinking more in terms of what I didn’t like in 4E and don’t know Pathfinder well enough, but maybe I'd make most magic items either “unfold” in power over time, or characters have to be of a certain level to "unpack" the bonus, maybe +1/5 levels (i.e. a level 1-5 character can use +1 of the bonus, levels 6-10 +2, etc).
  [*].
  

I like themes and so look forward to see how this works. In my game I also use an Influence mechanic (based on leadership) which determines the degree to which a character can affect the world by willpower alone. Its main use is as a wealth score (since the setting has a no-money economy) but I've also tied it to certain relics - a character must have a certain level of influence before they can use a given relic. If they don't have the influence the relic will not function and in some cases will infact backfire. The other thing which can be done is Influence can be invested in an item to give it a boost

 

[TheAuldGrump]

The D&D Next info coming in has got me excited and thinking about integrating elements of it into game play, even before playtesting begins. I realize that this thread would probably make more sense in another couple months, but thought I'd get the ball rolling now. Anyone else thinking along the same line?

I am pretty much taking a 'wait and see' approach with 5e, without all that much by way of hope, I am sorry to say. Frankly, I am not liking a good deal of what I see so far.

I'll start. I’m transitioning over from 4E to Pathfinder and am thinking of hybridizing Pathfinder with 5E, although at this point I don’t know Pathfinder well enough to do so. But here’s what I have in mind:

• Ability Scores as Skills – Being more flexible with use of Abilities as broad skill groups. Maybe “automatic successes” for non-pressured skill use, if score is high enough (as I believe Monte described). Perhaps do away with actual Skills altogether, and instead have player-decided specialty skills based upon background/theme, race, and class.

• That 'automatic success' is pretty much interchangeable with 'taking 10' - it is already in the game, has been since 3e.
  
  

  [*]Ability Scores as Saves – This seems easier to implement with Pathfinder than 4E, as Pathfinder saves are d20 + Saving Throw. While I like the terms Fortitude, Will, and Reflex, there really isn’t much reason to have a layer added onto Abilities.

  Except for scaling as the characters advance. One of the changes that I looked at dubiously, then said 'wait and see how it looks in context'. As is, right now... no.
  

  [*]Themes – setting-specific themes that give actual mechanical benefits in addition to flavor. I would probably just co-design these with each individual player during character creation.

  Something very similar is in both Fantasy Craft and Spycraft 2.0. Actually, give some of your earlier posts, I highly recommend looking at Fantasy Craft and/or Spycraft - I think that you could steal a lot from it.
  

  [*]Scaling – I don’t know Pathfinder well enough, but I’d like to soften the curve of scaling ala 5E’s design goals. Not sure how I’d do this but in BECMI language, I’d like to see levels 1-5 be the equivalent of “Basic,” 6-10 “Expert,” 11-20 “Companion,” 21-30 “Master,” and 31-40 “Immortal” (Demi-god level), although I prefer the language Adventurer, Heroic, Paragon, Epic, and Immortal). As with 4E, there would be larger jumps at new tiers.

  This one is harder - you may want to consider creating a quick template for advancing without changing the whole critter. Possibly adding 1 or 2 to all attack and/or saves rolls for each level the party is above the targetted level.
  
  Again - this is something that Fantasy Craft and Spycraft do excellently well. Creatures and NPCs are designed to be scaled.
  

  [*]Equipment/Magic Items – The basic goal would be to take mundane items useful for more than a couple levels, and magic items rarer. Again, I’m thinking more in terms of what I didn’t like in 4E and don’t know Pathfinder well enough, but maybe I'd make most magic items either “unfold” in power over time, or characters have to be of a certain level to "unpack" the bonus, maybe +1/5 levels (i.e. a level 1-5 character can use +1 of the bonus, levels 6-10 +2, etc).

  Another way might be to make it less expensive to add new enchantments to already enchanted items.
  
  I always like the idea of scaling weapons, but hated what Weapons of Legacy did to achieve that goal. I also hate the way it is handled in 4e.
  

  [*]Electrum! – Don’t know if this will really make it into 5E, but someone mentioned the good old electrum pieces. I might want to include, if only for nostalgia’s sake.

I have electrum in some of my settings - an electrum piece is worth 5 silver, two equal a gold. Electrum is just a gold/silver alloy. Not really a new metal. Find a ratio that you like, and go with it. (One of my settings uses old British currency, old Dutch currency, and various currencies from the Germanies... at the same time. Money changing is a business.)

Looking back over that list, I’m thinking a lot of that is more inspired by 5E than outright derived from it, but that works for the purposes of this thread. What about you?

I'd suggest running a few scenarios with Pathfinder as-is first, to get a feel for the system from the inside. Maybe three or four games.

Do look at Fantasy Craft if you get the chance, I think that you would like it. It might even fit your needs better than Pathfinder, though I prefer Pathfinder for my own fantasy gaming.

The Auld Grump

 

[mandykk]

It's an interesting thought. I like themes and so look forward to see how this works. The other thing which can be done is Influence can be invested in an item to give it a boost.


____________________
R4Crown3DS

 

[Mercurius]

[MENTION=6957]TheAuldGrump[/MENTION], I actually own Fantasy Craft but it is one of the many RPG books that I bought when it came out, browsed it a bit, and then left it on the shelf to gather dust. Sort of like the Pathfinder Core Rulebook .

But yeah, I'll give it another look-see. Would you say that Pathfinder and Fantasy Craft are compatible enough to use together?

 

[Rechan]

Ability Scores as Skills – Being more flexible with use of Abilities as broad skill groups. Maybe “automatic successes” for non-pressured skill use, if score is high enough (as I believe Monte described). Perhaps do away with actual Skills altogether, and instead have player-decided specialty skills based upon background/theme, race, and class.

I would never go that far, but here's one way I'm going to do it:

If a player has a high rank (or trained) in a certain skill, then they don't need to roll for something that would be easy for someone of their skill to accomplish. For instance, someone with x number of ranks in Open Locks/training in Thievery should not have to roll to bypass cheap/minor locks. The same with Jump/Athletics and clearing a small pit, etc. If they have knowledge x at a certain rank/trained, then they know all the basic info on that topic.

In other words, In 3e, I'd ask "would they bypass it if they could take 10?" If so, then they succeed. In 4e, I would treat all skills like 'Passive Perception/insight', 10 + training + ability score would be enough to tackle easy DCs, and might hit Medium DCs. In the case of knowledge rolls, they'd know everything of their skill rank and lower without needing to roll. While in combat is a different story.

(Personally I'm not interested in rolling unless the outcome is important/failure is relevant, but that's neither here nor there)

 

[Quickleaf]

It's funny, I've done similar things in 4e but never thought of it in terms of a new edition...

• Ability Scores as Skills – Being more flexible with use of Abilities as broad skill groups. Maybe “automatic successes” for non-pressured skill use, if score is high enough (as I believe Monte described). Perhaps do away with actual Skills altogether, and instead have player-decided specialty skills based upon background/theme, race, and class.

• 
  I use auto successes when it is appropriate to the character's archetype. A pixie on a miniature displaced beast doesnt need to worry about Athletics checks to jump a 10' flow of sewer water for example. And I'd probably give them automatic monster knowledge on pixies, nixies, grigs, and sylphs.
  
  On the same token I really don't like it when the group rolls dice and the knight happens to fail Endurance while the pixie rolls a natural 20; those sorts of situations just end up being comical. Which can be exactly what the doctor ordered...and sometimes exactly what what the doctor didn't.
  
  

  [*]Ability Scores as Saves – This seems easier to implement with Pathfinder than 4E, as Pathfinder saves are d20 + Saving Throw. While I like the terms Fortitude, Will, and Reflex, there really isn’t much reason to have a layer added onto Abilities.

  For some special effects I have the PCs add an ability modifier to saving throws, though almost always outside of combat. For example, when fighting wererats, instead of there being a secondary attack vs. Fortitude, each time a PC was hit they had to make a save (+CON modifier) or be afflicted with sewer fever.
  
  

  [*]Scaling – I don’t know Pathfinder well enough, but I’d like to soften the curve of scaling ala 5E’s design goals. Not sure how I’d do this but in BECMI language, I’d like to see levels 1-5 be the equivalent of “Basic,” 6-10 “Expert,” 11-20 “Companion,” 21-30 “Master,” and 31-40 “Immortal” (Demi-god level), although I prefer the language Adventurer, Heroic, Paragon, Epic, and Immortal). As with 4E, there would be larger jumps at new tiers.

  I've always played 4e at the heroic tier, and it was pretty forgiving of challenges across a whole range of levels. Plus de-leveling a monster's defenses, attack, damage, and HP is trivially easy.
  
  

  [*]Equipment/Magic Items – The basic goal would be to take mundane items useful for more than a couple levels, and magic items rarer. Again, I’m thinking more in terms of what I didn’t like in 4E and don’t know Pathfinder well enough, but maybe I'd make most magic items either “unfold” in power over time, or characters have to be of a certain level to "unpack" the bonus, maybe +1/5 levels (i.e. a level 1-5 character can use +1 of the bonus, levels 6-10 +2, etc).

  I just adopted inherent bonuses and was done with it. This freed me up to make up / convert some flavorful magic items & let's me roll on treasure tables withou a thought to "party-balanced treasure."
  

  [*]Electrum! – Don’t know if this will really make it into 5E, but someone mentioned the good old electrum pieces. I might want to include, if only for nostalgia’s sake.

I like to throw in nostalgia bits too. One trick I'm using is the remains of an "old school" adventuring party scattered across the campaign. Each dead adventurer has some old school gimmick, like a horribly drawn map of taped together pages, as a wink to the old time gamers in the group.

 

[Jhaelen]

Well, considering that 5E is supposed to be the "Best Of ..." edition, I suppose I'm integrating all of the elements that have been implemented best in 4e.

I'm definitely not considering integrating anything else.