Detect Evil => Detect Corruption

[mkill]

While I agree that detecting evil is an iconic and flavorful ability for Paladins, the way it worked was destructive. It's just way too precise and way too broad. It destroys classic plots like "find the murderer" and "demonic infestation in the church".

Rather than the very broad "evil", Paladins should be able to detect "corruption". The difference is that "corruption" is not about what you are, but what you do, and the evil acts have to be supernatural. Demons and undead should emit an aura of corruption. Humans only do if they comitted unspeakable acts. Items and places can be tainted by corruption, too.

Tavern owner who steals your stuff at night: evil? Yes. Corrupted? No.

Read a book on Necromancy? Evil: Probably. Corrupted? No.
Use the book to raise zombie army: Corrupted.

Murder your wife: Evil: Yes. Corrupted: No. Sacrifice her to Asmodeus: Corrupted.

In addition, Detect Corruption should be a passive, non-directional ability like smell, not a radar. (In game terms, a passive Wisdom / Perception check)
Flavorful: "I smell the foul stench of demons in this monastery" "This was not mere grave robbery. I fear the dead are walking tonight."
Lame: "Ok, 5 evil auras level 3 behind that door"
If a demon pactitioner is in the room, you can detect him, but you don't know immediately who it is.

And finally, demons like Succubi, whose shtick it is to walk among humans undetected, should be able to mask their aura of corruption. Corrupt church leaders and similar should have rituals or items to disguise it.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

agreed!

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I've always found that if you apply "detect evil" as if it simply detects tendencies, rather than acts, it nerfs it sufficiently to not be game breaking -- and only the most rabid Lawful Stupid players depopulate towns because they detect as evil in that case.

 

[Falling Icicle]

I prefer to get rid of alignment-based magic altogether and replace it with effects that target creature types. Detect undead, magic circle against elementals, smite fiends, etc.

I'd replace a Paladin's detect evil and smite evil abilities with detect and smite "creatures of darkness." These would include undead and other negative energy creatures as well as demons, devils and fiendish creatures (and other beings classicaly labeled as evil outsiders).

That, or just make a Paladin's smite add "radiant" damage to the attack. If the creature is one of the types I mentioned above, it will very likely be vulnerable to such damage.

 

[Dausuul]

I must spread some more XP around.

This is exactly how I think detect evil should work. In fact, I would extend it to the entire alignment system. No more "good" and "evil," at least as far as game mechanics go; just "blessed" and "corrupted." (Or "light" and "shadow," as I usually think of them.)

 

[TarionzCousin]

My very first 3E character was a paladin. The DM houseruled something vaguely similar to this: evil only existed during events.

So no monsters were ever evil. It was their nature to kill and destroy innocent townsfolk; it wasn't "evil."

It was extremely frustrating. I think I got to smite once in a dozen sessions before we all quit the game.

 

[The Human Target]

Its still just a weaker version of "detect plot."

No thanks, I had enough of that years ago.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Its still just a weaker version of "detect plot."

I know where you are coming from but I got the opposite vibe; I thought "detect corruption" more flavourful and much less invasive in terms of plot. Can you expand upon your thoughts here?

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[mkill]

Its still just a weaker version of "detect plot."

No thanks, I had enough of that years ago.

"Detect Plot" is good if it is the opposite of "run around aimlessly and miss what the DM prepared".

"Detect Plot" is bad if it means "solve all secrets in 5 minutes the DM wanted to reveal piece by piece over a 2 year campaign".

This is why it's a passive ability: If the DM wants to keep a secret, he'll just set the DC so high that the Paladin will fail all checks (and doesn't even know he's rolling). The DM can be intentionally vague to set a theme and give hints, but not give it all away at once.

It was extremely frustrating. I think I got to smite once in a dozen sessions before we all quit the game.

Smite Evil is a different beast. If a Paladin decides to smite it, it's evil by definition.

In game terms, the "evil" part of Smite Evil should be fluff. It should always work, no matter who or what.

That said, I still think that Paladins should have a moral code, and if they violate this code they should lose their powers. But this should be DMG material, for the DM and group to fit their tastes.

 

[FireLance]

I'd rather have it work as Detect Evil Intent. This means that it "pings" whenever someone is actively trying to ambush, assassinate, mislead or otherwise cause harm to someone.

It is thus more of a passive warning than something that the paladin can actively use. It's the gods' (and the DM's) way of telling the paladin, "Hey you, be alert! Something's not quite right."