El Mahdi
Muad'Dib of the Anauroch
What good are polls with question designed to reinforce a preconcieved assumption? That's not "collecting data". That's seeking validation of your ideas.
D&D Blog - Just Bigger Numbers
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What good are polls with question designed to reinforce a preconcieved assumption? That's not "collecting data". That's seeking validation of your ideas.
El Mahdi
Muad'Dib of the Anauroch
What good are polls with question designed to reinforce a preconcieved assumption? That's not "collecting data". That's seeking validation of your ideas.
And if enough people still go against the idea even if they were supposedly 'nudged' in the other direction... then that tells WotC something too.
A bad idea is a bad idea and will usually be voted on accordingly.
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
n00bdragon said:
Yeah, I thought it was a jerk move when Monte Cook seduced my mom, Mike Mearls shot my dog, and Jeremy Crawford called my macaroni sculptures transparent and pedestrian, too.
But then Erik Mona, Lisa Stevens, and Sean K Reynolds made me hot chocolate and gave me pie and sent me to a therapist so that I can learn not to direct my hatred of life at random game designers, and it really helped.
I have some leftover pie, if you want it.
I think that the trouble WotC has with doing things like the polls and communicating with the audience has more to do with forces above them.
They live in the Hasbro world with Hasbro lawyers directing the overall limits of what they can and can not do.
They understand the value of communicating with the audience that is following the product.
The benefits being;
1> People following the project are most likely the 'early adopters'. They are the mavericks willing to spend money on day one to just look at what is produced. The are also the people that will spread word to their friends that the new product is 'must buy' or 'pass'. Generally the people that have enough disposable income that they will budget for the new release and possibly the first few products.
2> Any sort of press keeps the project in people's thoughts and discussing it on the web which attracts the other groups (like chumming for sharks ;> ). This is a hard balancing act. You need to keep feeding the market with information or 'progress' reports.
3> Finally, you try to see what you can do to improve the market impact and adoption of your product.
------------------------------------------
Now, Paizo when they have done their roll out of products has a small company to work with (I think they've said in seminars they want to keep it to around 30 people). They can be connected to the audience because they don't have a layer setting down the corporate rules (though I am sure they have some sort of company policy).
Jason has regular contact on Facebook and invites people to follow his 'life' as he is developing projects, going to conventions, playing in games, and GMing games (his weekly Grind and convention season game).
The playtests have been mixed in how the rules have been rolled out to players to look at the resulting response to feedback on the forums. The good side is that I've seen Jason respond on the forums and note things. The bad side has been some of the things requested or noted don't seem to change (that though is the prerogative of the designer to make the call).
-----------------------------------------
My feeling is that WotC has to get Hasbro's approval for similar contact and to release 'hard' material. This was the trouble with trying to get an 'open' licence for 4e.
Some corporations (and bigger corporations tend to have stricter controls) have tighter controls on what can be released and when it can be released.
Hasbro deals mostly intellectual property that is designed based (the appearance of GI Joe, Barbie, Littlest Pony, and dozens of other lines). They have a history of fighting against some other toy company making 'knock off designs'. A plastic figurine that looks like Barbie and can be sold at the Dollar store is easy to make and only a large army of lawyers prevent people from doing it (or using Barbie as the name on many non-Barbie businesses).
I feel sorry for the WotC designers because they need to fight against those controls for a business that at least in the last 5 years has moved towards more transparency on the web. RPGs made by any but the biggest designers are now being done in more a 'writer' style with constant blogs of things tried, playtests with friends, and debates on what mechanics work best.
It is standard to blog 2-3 months in advance of a kickstarter project along with going on podcasts to boost support for the kickstarter when it is begun.
Blogs continue well afterwards to keep people interest in the product as the designers take the product to market for the 'early adopters' to purchase and review.
I just don't see Habro allowing any company that they own to work in this 'writer's paradigm'.
That means the polls and playtest talk is going to be mostly 'empty' of the value many of the people that would come and discuss the topic would want.
---------------------------------
So, what use are the articles and the polls to us?
They actually can give us some insight into what stage of the development the team happens to be working on.
For example, this week has had three blogs and polls connected to higher level play ('A Quick Look at High-Level Play', 'Kings and Castles', 'Just Bigger Numbers'). We also know that they felt confident enough in lower level play that they did DDXP and have been doing some F&F playtesting.
This suggests that they've settled on some basic systems and are discussing what they think people will want. That means they are trying to decide on 'what you want to buy' in terms of market research.
Responding at all shows interest in a high level game. Responding to bigger numbers tells them that players are interested in having levels and change. Responding to Castles shows that you might like an option to rule a realm or have followers.
The prior week was discussing Fighters and dice mechanics. This tells us they were working on abilities and options for characters past level 1. They were working on what options and patterns the fighter class might have.
My guess is that if they settle on some of the ways to phrase the abilities of the fighter then they will 'fill in' the other classes around this iconic class.
There was one blog on 'Spell names' and I'm sure there may be some sore memories on the 4e suggested names for some wizard abilities that did not make the final cut. This again shows activity on preparing a pile of names that could be used for assigning names to abilities for test purposes.
With the fighter worked on last week and high level discussion this week, my guess is that design team will move to discussing the wizard as the other iconic character that they need to fill and discuss. At least in terms of a character with levels going from level 1 to what they set as 'high' level play.
They live in the Hasbro world with Hasbro lawyers directing the overall limits of what they can and can not do.
They understand the value of communicating with the audience that is following the product.
The benefits being;
1> People following the project are most likely the 'early adopters'. They are the mavericks willing to spend money on day one to just look at what is produced. The are also the people that will spread word to their friends that the new product is 'must buy' or 'pass'. Generally the people that have enough disposable income that they will budget for the new release and possibly the first few products.
2> Any sort of press keeps the project in people's thoughts and discussing it on the web which attracts the other groups (like chumming for sharks ;> ). This is a hard balancing act. You need to keep feeding the market with information or 'progress' reports.
3> Finally, you try to see what you can do to improve the market impact and adoption of your product.
------------------------------------------
Now, Paizo when they have done their roll out of products has a small company to work with (I think they've said in seminars they want to keep it to around 30 people). They can be connected to the audience because they don't have a layer setting down the corporate rules (though I am sure they have some sort of company policy).
Jason has regular contact on Facebook and invites people to follow his 'life' as he is developing projects, going to conventions, playing in games, and GMing games (his weekly Grind and convention season game).
The playtests have been mixed in how the rules have been rolled out to players to look at the resulting response to feedback on the forums. The good side is that I've seen Jason respond on the forums and note things. The bad side has been some of the things requested or noted don't seem to change (that though is the prerogative of the designer to make the call).
-----------------------------------------
My feeling is that WotC has to get Hasbro's approval for similar contact and to release 'hard' material. This was the trouble with trying to get an 'open' licence for 4e.
Some corporations (and bigger corporations tend to have stricter controls) have tighter controls on what can be released and when it can be released.
Hasbro deals mostly intellectual property that is designed based (the appearance of GI Joe, Barbie, Littlest Pony, and dozens of other lines). They have a history of fighting against some other toy company making 'knock off designs'. A plastic figurine that looks like Barbie and can be sold at the Dollar store is easy to make and only a large army of lawyers prevent people from doing it (or using Barbie as the name on many non-Barbie businesses).
I feel sorry for the WotC designers because they need to fight against those controls for a business that at least in the last 5 years has moved towards more transparency on the web. RPGs made by any but the biggest designers are now being done in more a 'writer' style with constant blogs of things tried, playtests with friends, and debates on what mechanics work best.
It is standard to blog 2-3 months in advance of a kickstarter project along with going on podcasts to boost support for the kickstarter when it is begun.
Blogs continue well afterwards to keep people interest in the product as the designers take the product to market for the 'early adopters' to purchase and review.
I just don't see Habro allowing any company that they own to work in this 'writer's paradigm'.
That means the polls and playtest talk is going to be mostly 'empty' of the value many of the people that would come and discuss the topic would want.
---------------------------------
So, what use are the articles and the polls to us?
They actually can give us some insight into what stage of the development the team happens to be working on.
For example, this week has had three blogs and polls connected to higher level play ('A Quick Look at High-Level Play', 'Kings and Castles', 'Just Bigger Numbers'). We also know that they felt confident enough in lower level play that they did DDXP and have been doing some F&F playtesting.
This suggests that they've settled on some basic systems and are discussing what they think people will want. That means they are trying to decide on 'what you want to buy' in terms of market research.
Responding at all shows interest in a high level game. Responding to bigger numbers tells them that players are interested in having levels and change. Responding to Castles shows that you might like an option to rule a realm or have followers.
The prior week was discussing Fighters and dice mechanics. This tells us they were working on abilities and options for characters past level 1. They were working on what options and patterns the fighter class might have.
My guess is that if they settle on some of the ways to phrase the abilities of the fighter then they will 'fill in' the other classes around this iconic class.
There was one blog on 'Spell names' and I'm sure there may be some sore memories on the 4e suggested names for some wizard abilities that did not make the final cut. This again shows activity on preparing a pile of names that could be used for assigning names to abilities for test purposes.
With the fighter worked on last week and high level discussion this week, my guess is that design team will move to discussing the wizard as the other iconic character that they need to fill and discuss. At least in terms of a character with levels going from level 1 to what they set as 'high' level play.
FireLance
Legend
ExploderWizard
Hero
I'm completely open to that. A lessening of the power curve can make this possible. It means that weaker foes in numbers can still be a major threat and monsters defenses can be approriate to model whatever it actually is within a sane numerical range.
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
Someone
Adventurer
Can I ask why this:
Implies a more complex gameplay?
At first level you can move 20 feet. At 20 you teleport 40 feet. Big deal, unless you consider that counting 8 squares is fundamentally more complex than counting 4.
Also, it seems they think that a supernatural feat of strength when attacking implies a complex weave of temporary bonuses and active abilities that interlock to build an amazing result, or that to model extraordinary feats of might or magic you need a complex ruleset.
Instead, IMO punting a 15 ton dragon 60 feet away is pretty much the scientific definition of awesome, and doesn't imply much more mechanical complexity that you can do at 1st level in 4e.
Implies a more complex gameplay?
At first level you can move 20 feet. At 20 you teleport 40 feet. Big deal, unless you consider that counting 8 squares is fundamentally more complex than counting 4.
Also, it seems they think that a supernatural feat of strength when attacking implies a complex weave of temporary bonuses and active abilities that interlock to build an amazing result, or that to model extraordinary feats of might or magic you need a complex ruleset.
Instead, IMO punting a 15 ton dragon 60 feet away is pretty much the scientific definition of awesome, and doesn't imply much more mechanical complexity that you can do at 1st level in 4e.
Teleport of 40' seems like nothing until you think of all the fight problems you can avoid.
Bridge over a chasam? Who needs a bridge?
Slide that drops you off the edge of a cliff? Teleport before you hit ground to safety.
Evil villian standing on a ledge above you? You're right beside them.
Need to flank and opponent? You thief just appeared behind and attacked for extra damage.
Opponent flying on the back of a dragon? Surprise, you appear behind them and throw them out of the saddle to their death.
Magical force field blocking your passage? Teleport to the other side.
You don't need rope, bridges, or time to cover important distances if you can teleport.
This is why the Eladrin racial ability was considered such a big event. How do you imprison someone who can teleport through barriers at will or escape their chains?
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