Light Knight
First Post
Ahh yes, now I remember thanks for pointing that out.
Javelin of Lightning or other ammo with spells
- Thread starter Light Knight
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Light Knight
First Post
Wait, maybe I dont see.
A book retail price for a cure light wounds is 50gp.
According to the formula, the same formula the Javelin of Lightning is based on,
its: Spell Level x Caster Level x 50 gp.
so that would be 750gp for a javelin of lightning, so I again wonder how did it become 1500gp?
A book retail price for a cure light wounds is 50gp.
According to the formula, the same formula the Javelin of Lightning is based on,
its: Spell Level x Caster Level x 50 gp.
so that would be 750gp for a javelin of lightning, so I again wonder how did it become 1500gp?
Sekhmet
First Post
Cost of creation vs. Cost of buying.
To create a Scroll of Cure Light Wounds it is only 25gp (Caster level (1) x Spell level (1) x 25gp = 25gp).
To buy it, the base price is 50gp.
The reason for the discrepancy is so it is advantageous to create the item yourself (even with the EXP cost) instead of just buying it from a store. Otherwise, there would be no "Magic Item Emporium", as no one could make any money off of it.
To create a Scroll of Cure Light Wounds it is only 25gp (Caster level (1) x Spell level (1) x 25gp = 25gp).
To buy it, the base price is 50gp.
The reason for the discrepancy is so it is advantageous to create the item yourself (even with the EXP cost) instead of just buying it from a store. Otherwise, there would be no "Magic Item Emporium", as no one could make any money off of it.
Light Knight
First Post
But the cost for creating a cure light wounds potion is 25gp...The rules give the base cost (ie market price)
Empirate
First Post
Potion of Cure Light =/= Javelin of Lightning. Apples and oranges, really.
Potions have a fixed formula associated with their market price. We know the formula (caster level x spell level x 50 gp), since it is given in the rules, so we can associate a price tag with every possible 1st - 3rd level spell made into a potion.
The 'formula used' in 'calculating' the market price of a Javelin of Lightning is not a given, since there is no formula for weapons that turn into spell effects in the rules. So it has to be reverse-engineered from a JoL's actual price tag (1,500 gp), which is the one fixed value we are given. Simply multiplying caster level and spell level and take the result times a hundred seems to be what the designers did with the JoL, so we're going with that. And it does seem reasonable, especially if you only want to switch a direct damage spell for another one.
However, pricing magic items is an art, and shouldn't be slave to any preconception of what 'formula' seems to have been used. Consider carefully the desired effect of a new magic item, and take into account what you know about game balance. Consider how 'powerful' that effect would be if it could be created as an attack (so multiple times/round on a full attack). Sometimes, especially with spells that are mainly balanced by long casting times and such, a simple formula like "CL x spell level x 100" won't suffice.
That said, I think you'll be fine with those crossbow bolts of Scorching Ray (CL 7) at a market price of 1,400 gp each (700 gp each to create).
Potions have a fixed formula associated with their market price. We know the formula (caster level x spell level x 50 gp), since it is given in the rules, so we can associate a price tag with every possible 1st - 3rd level spell made into a potion.
The 'formula used' in 'calculating' the market price of a Javelin of Lightning is not a given, since there is no formula for weapons that turn into spell effects in the rules. So it has to be reverse-engineered from a JoL's actual price tag (1,500 gp), which is the one fixed value we are given. Simply multiplying caster level and spell level and take the result times a hundred seems to be what the designers did with the JoL, so we're going with that. And it does seem reasonable, especially if you only want to switch a direct damage spell for another one.
However, pricing magic items is an art, and shouldn't be slave to any preconception of what 'formula' seems to have been used. Consider carefully the desired effect of a new magic item, and take into account what you know about game balance. Consider how 'powerful' that effect would be if it could be created as an attack (so multiple times/round on a full attack). Sometimes, especially with spells that are mainly balanced by long casting times and such, a simple formula like "CL x spell level x 100" won't suffice.
That said, I think you'll be fine with those crossbow bolts of Scorching Ray (CL 7) at a market price of 1,400 gp each (700 gp each to create).
Sekhmet
First Post
That is exactly what I said in that post.
Base Price is NOT the same as Creation Cost. Almost every item in the book has a difference (of about double) between cost to create and cost to buy.
[MENTION=78958]Empirate[/MENTION]
It doesn't need to be reverse engineered at all. Using the Creating Magical Items tables, it is evident that the cost to create a JoL is 750 GP. A one time, use activated item, with a third level spell, created by a fifth level wizard.
The exact same formula is used for Scrolls and Potions. Caster Level x Spell Level X 25g to create or 50g for market value.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm, in case you guys are just rusty with item creation rules.
Empirate
First Post
1. Potions cost double the money of scrolls, just saying. You know that, I assume, but the way you put it implies differently.
2. So why is a Javelin of Lightning 1,500 gp if it uses the potion formula? To reiterate: single-use, use-activated items have a base price of caster level x spell level x 50 gp. The gp cost of creating a magic item is half its base price. Using that formula, I don't arrive at a market price of 1,500 gp (750 to create) for a JoL, but at 750 gp (375 to create).
Obviously, the designers didn't think "single-use, use-activated, just like a potion", when the made the Javelin of Lightning. What they DID think has to be reverse-engineered from the given market price (which is double that of a potion holding a 3rd level spell, I'll refer you here for convenience: Potions And Oils :: d20srd.org). It was probably something along the lines of:
"Gee, if we price that Javelin of Lightning like a potion, then it's a bit off. See, it's a standard action to drink a potion, while it's just an attack to use a javelin, so a high-level warrior type could do it many times in a round. It can also be used, not on the wielder, but on the bad guys. Let's just double the price tag and call it a day."
2. So why is a Javelin of Lightning 1,500 gp if it uses the potion formula? To reiterate: single-use, use-activated items have a base price of caster level x spell level x 50 gp. The gp cost of creating a magic item is half its base price. Using that formula, I don't arrive at a market price of 1,500 gp (750 to create) for a JoL, but at 750 gp (375 to create).
Obviously, the designers didn't think "single-use, use-activated, just like a potion", when the made the Javelin of Lightning. What they DID think has to be reverse-engineered from the given market price (which is double that of a potion holding a 3rd level spell, I'll refer you here for convenience: Potions And Oils :: d20srd.org). It was probably something along the lines of:
"Gee, if we price that Javelin of Lightning like a potion, then it's a bit off. See, it's a standard action to drink a potion, while it's just an attack to use a javelin, so a high-level warrior type could do it many times in a round. It can also be used, not on the wielder, but on the bad guys. Let's just double the price tag and call it a day."
I don't understand the 375gp number here, did you flip the create/market prices?
Following that item creation formula of caster level x spell level x 50gp I get; 5th level wizard and level 3 spell,
5 x 3 x 50gp = 750gp - this would be the item creation cost no? So then you would double that for the market price to get 1,500gp.
Personally I hate the creation formulas, they confuse me and don't add up half the time (MIC I'm looking at you...). Other times an item is way too expensive for what it does (nearly every Monk item, by the time you can afford them they're still good, but would've been great sooner like the Fighter whose had his +2 longsword for a couple levels already before you could buy your Monk Belt). Or, you get a the one guy in your group who wants to exploit things like knocking off 30% of the creation cost by putting some type of restriction on the item like race or class.
Empirate
First Post
Nonono.
The formula given for single-use, use-activated items (CL x spell level x 50 gp) is the formula for the base price (usually = market price). To arrive at the cost for creating the item, halve the number.
That's why a Javelin of Lightning (1,500 gp market price, 750 gp to create) can't be calculated according to this formula. It clearly uses spell level 3 (Lightning Bolt), caster level 5 (5d6 damage), and another multiplier of 100, not 50, to calculate its price tag.
Ergo: Javelin of Lightning does not use the standard formula for pricing single-use, use-activated items.
The formula given for single-use, use-activated items (CL x spell level x 50 gp) is the formula for the base price (usually = market price). To arrive at the cost for creating the item, halve the number.
That's why a Javelin of Lightning (1,500 gp market price, 750 gp to create) can't be calculated according to this formula. It clearly uses spell level 3 (Lightning Bolt), caster level 5 (5d6 damage), and another multiplier of 100, not 50, to calculate its price tag.
Ergo: Javelin of Lightning does not use the standard formula for pricing single-use, use-activated items.
Sekhmet
First Post
[MENTION=78958]Empirate[/MENTION] Add in a +1 Masterwork Javelin (1101 gold) plus 50x cost of the components for Lightning Bolt (A bit of fur and an amber, crystal, or glass rod.).
We can safely assume that will reach the desired price point of 1,500, making the creation cost 750.
1100 + 375 = 1475 + spell component costs, or to be perfectly candid about it, "lets just round it up."
Seemed to forget that before you enchant a weapon, it needs to be +1.
We can safely assume that will reach the desired price point of 1,500, making the creation cost 750.
1100 + 375 = 1475 + spell component costs, or to be perfectly candid about it, "lets just round it up."
Seemed to forget that before you enchant a weapon, it needs to be +1.
