GM-player Communication vs. Metagaming

[Loonook]

Are you actually calling me a liar about my real life example? If yes, you owe me an apology or a mod owes you a visit to BanTown for insultiing behavior.

It really did happen. The GM was Ned, and the other players were Paul and Nicole.

Ned gave a simple description of "it's like the Ewok Village" We climbed up the ladder, got attacked from another platform, and Paul announced his act of idiocy.

Paul tends to acts of idiocy, and our group has 2 choices, let him die (and possibly take us with him) and have to keep spinning up new PCs into the party, or pause the game, talk him off the ledge and resume. We choose the latter.

Paul is a good friend, a good portrayer of character and a good team player. He's not always so good with acts of spontaneity. He also gets silly when he doesn't take things seriously. So letting him plow through PCs means he will stop taking the game seriously because he doesn't take his PC seriously anymore.

A situation like this can happen in the blink of an eye. I was surprised when he said "I run and jump across to the other platform!" There are some GMs who I have met who would have rolled the Jump check and said "OK, you run and jump and fail to cross the 20' and fall 60' to your death."

[MENTION=26473]The Shaman[/MENTION] implies with his other statements that he normally lays out minis, diagrams, etc. If he was GMing and the situation played out like I describe (no chance to draw or explain before Paul blurts out, would he make Paul jump and die?

So the player, without requesting clarification on distance, decided to try to close distance in ranged combat in an Ewok Village style setup where there is no bridge between the platforms that he's dealing with...

When the Ewok village as presented throughout the movie which I have never seen looks like this?

Hotlinked.

I know what an Ewok village looks like. I've played in many Halfling, Elven, Rogue, etc. cities in the trees that look like it. It is a trope. The player requested no clarifying information, no confirmation on the layout, distances, but assumed that they would just mystically close distance through their jump?

Hotlinked.

Look into the eyes of these adventurers. So abused, neglected, and unloved. They are starving in dungeons because no one brought food, broken limbs due to badly-placed jumps, and other terrible ailments. For only the price of a few Cure Moderate Wounds you too could help us give these adventurers a new home...

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[Janx]

I know what an Ewok village looks like. I've played in many Halfling, Elven, Rogue, etc. cities in the trees that look like it. It is a trope. The player requested no clarifying information, no confirmation on the layout, distances, but assumed that they would just mystically close distance through their jump?

yup.

I was shocked. The GM was shocked. Not that the GM gave a lot of info, on distances, etc. But he should have asked how far, how high before proposing his action.

Once certainty sets in, his mind ignored what he didn't actually know.

There is a very real phenomenon of ignorant people acting more confident in their unknowledge than actually knowledgable people.

 

[billd91]

yup.

I was shocked. The GM was shocked. Not that the GM gave a lot of info, on distances, etc. But he should have asked how far, how high before proposing his action.

Once certainty sets in, his mind ignored what he didn't actually know.

Is this before or after he might have experienced Lego Star Wars 2 on a game console? Jumping onto or from platform to platform? Possible.

 

[Loonook]

Is this before or after he might have experienced Lego Star Wars 2 on a game console? Jumping onto or from platform to platform? Possible.

Yes, because as we all know Lego Star Wars 2 presents the portrayal of Star Wars that is most canonical and has highest verisimilitude.

Was the player an animate series of yellow blocks? If so I would hate to have to find the special 'snap on' armor and helmets .

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[Janx]

Is this before or after he might have experienced Lego Star Wars 2 on a game console? Jumping onto or from platform to platform? Possible.

ya know, he and I did rent and play through the whole lego star wars series on night....

 

[billd91]

ya know, he and I did rent and play through the whole lego star wars series on night....

If you haven't seen Return of the Jedi or any other Ewok-heavy show, the ease of getting from platform to platform in Star Wars might just skew your mental model of an Ewok platform village...

 

[pemerton]

I saw RotJ when it first came out. I don't remember the separation between platforms. If I was told by the GM that I was in a tree platform village, I might have my PC try and jump between platforms - that seems like the slightly cool sort of thing that one might try in an RPG set in a tree platform village.

If, in fact, I was obviously jumping to my death, I might expect the GM to give me a heads up.

 

[Rogue Agent]

I saw RotJ when it first came out. I don't remember the separation between platforms. If I was told by the GM that I was in a tree platform village, I might have my PC try and jump between platforms - that seems like the slightly cool sort of thing that one might try in an RPG set in a tree platform village.

Despite Loonook's incredulity, the reality is that we're communicating through a purely verbal medium and the result of that is that people are going to form different mental images of the scene. Usually that doesn't cause problems; sometimes it does.

Another easy example would be something like:

GM: The other ship pulls in close.
Player: Great. I'll jump over to it.
GM: Err... I meant close as in "close for a cannon shot". It's still pretty far away for jumping.
Player: Gotcha. Well, I guess I'm not going to do that, then.

I mean, the GM could be a dick and have him fall into the water while chortling to himself. "MWAHAHAHAHAHA! YOU SHOULD HAVE ASKED FOR CLARIFICATION BEFORE JUMPING!"

But that would just make the GM a dick. Situations in which players are trying to something which -- as far as the GM is concerned -- is impossible are a dead give-away that miscommunication has occurred. It might be he GM's fault. It might be the player's fault. You could waste time trying to figure out who's to blame...

... or you could be a mature adult, acknowledge that sometimes miscommunication just happens, and then clarify the situation and move on.

 

[Loonook]

Despite Loonook's incredulity, the reality is that we're communicating through a purely verbal medium and the result of that is that people are going to form different mental images of the scene. Usually that doesn't cause problems; sometimes it does.

Another easy example would be something like:

GM: The other ship pulls in close.
Player: Great. I'll jump over to it.
GM: Err... I meant close as in "close for a cannon shot". It's still pretty far away for jumping.
Player: Gotcha. Well, I guess I'm not going to do that, then.

I mean, the GM could be a dick and have him fall into the water while chortling to himself. "MWAHAHAHAHAHA! YOU SHOULD HAVE ASKED FOR CLARIFICATION BEFORE JUMPING!"

But that would just make the GM a dick. Situations in which players are trying to something which -- as far as the GM is concerned -- is impossible are a dead give-away that miscommunication has occurred. It might be he GM's fault. It might be the player's fault. You could waste time trying to figure out who's to blame...

... or you could be a mature adult, acknowledge that sometimes miscommunication just happens, and then clarify the situation and move on.

Now, besides the attack there, let's discuss your option.

A player should ask "how close?"

Done. Player resolved. No problem with an "Are you sure?" or clarification. But a player who just decided to jump... Sorry if your players are being obtuse, but perhaps my players just asked more questions? Maybe we use clear, concise language, diagrams when needed in a 3-d combat situation, or the kind of player-DM things that make for good gaming?

((Sorry, couldn't resist ))

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[Rogue Agent]

A player should ask "how close?"

Okay. We'll try this one last time:

Why, exactly, do you feel GMs should be whiny little children who refuse to clarify obvious misunderstandings?

You keep insisting that it's absolutely unacceptable for a GM to clarify what he meant when a word is interpreted differently by a player than the way he intended it. But you haven't actually explained why you believe that to be true.