+2 max for magic items?

[Kzach]

In the "Should the +1 sword exist in 5e" thread, I noticed several common sentiments, one of which was a desire to restrict magical plusses to a maximum of +2. The other one was that magical plusses should NOT be incorporated into the expected mathematical balance of the system. Since this is in line with how I feel about plusses and since I'm a post-whore, I figured I'd start a thread on it.

In AD&D, most magical weapons were only +1, with special bonuses against certain creatures or in certain situations. There were only a few weapons that went higher than this and they were special, named items like the vorpal sword, or holy avenger or defender.

So why do we need +3, 4 & 5? If plusses are actually PLUSSES and not expected to balance the system, then we really don't need more than +1's or +2's. Sure, every so often a special weapon or other item comes along and it's uber cool, like a vorpal sword, but that should be the rare once-off that is either completely random, or part of a great adventure.

So, who's with me?

 

[Sunseeker]

Because without the higher-end magical item arsenal, the non-magic classes fall even further behind the magical ones.

 

[Kingreaper]

I'd actually be perfectly happy with +1 as the maximum plus.

However, +2 is fine too. What I want is for there to be weapons, etc. that lack the +, but are still preferable to a weapon with the +. 4e deliberately chose not to provide this, and it was felt (I think it's a big factor in the "Magic items don't feel magical" complaints)

 

[Kingreaper]

Because without the higher-end magical item arsenal, the non-magic classes fall even further behind the magical ones.

If the fighter needs +6 to hit and damage at level 20, in order to keep up with the wizard: GIVE THEM +6 TO HIT AND DAMAGE

Designing the game so that fighters only keep up if the GM hands them +X magic items on time is silly.

 

[Sunseeker]

If the fighter needs +6 to hit and damage at level 20, in order to keep up with the wizard: GIVE THEM +6 TO HIT AND DAMAGE

Designing the game so that fighters only keep up if the GM hands them +X magic items on time is silly.

I agree, history however shows that this has been the default design of almost every edition.

 

[Kingreaper]

I agree, history however shows that this has been the default design of almost every edition.

This may be so, however 4e broke that design principle, and I don't think there are many people clamouring to bring it back.

 

[Sunseeker]

This may be so, however 4e broke that design principle, and I don't think there are many people clamouring to bring it back.

To an extent, though it was largely achieved by eliminating SoD effects and Vancian magic. Both are looking to come back in 5e, soooo I have valid concerns.

 

[Kzach]

I agree, history however shows that this has been the default design of almost every edition.

I think we can trust the current designers to take this sort of thing into account...

 

[Kingreaper]

To an extent, though it was largely achieved by eliminating SoD effects and Vancian magic. Both are looking to come back in 5e, soooo I have valid concerns.

+X items can't solve those concerns though.

The +X can easily be baked into the class.

 

[Sunseeker]

I think we can trust the current designers to take this sort of thing into account...

I'm concerned that it's going to get thrown under the bus as an excuse to attempt to decry 4e(as some of their earlier articles did) in a shallow attempt to recapture fans of older editions.

+X items can't solve those concerns though.

The +X can easily be baked into the class.

Well, they can't correct the flaws of the class design, but they can make up for them.
And it should be, but as I said, I have reservations about the likelyhood of this.


Beyond that, back on the original topic, +X is also a good grade system to judge how "good" a magic item is.