the tablet war is heating up

[John Crichton]

As to a product outselling the one I like, I am fairly certain that I have not indicated a preference to date. Rather, what I have indicated is that lack of diversity in the market is not healthy. It's a monopoly of the consumers' making.

And that assumption is where you get into trouble. We are dealing in an area where one company created the market and continues to dominate it. The onus isn't on consumers to create diversity and competing products, that's on the makers of non-Apple tablets. Either a superior tablet at the same price point or something significantly cheaper for similar features, app support and performance is the only way to make consumers bother with something that isn't an established product.

And your statement of branding being overvalued only strikes true if the products from that brand/product line aren't doing what they are supposed to compared to competing products.

And before you make your own assumption about what I just said, it boils down to this: Both tablet manufacturers and consumers factor into the current market situation. They both made it what it currently is. And right now it's not the public's job to make change. It's the manufacturer's job to put something else out there worth buying. And since Apple created the market and continues to dominate it the other tablet makers are going to have to do more than just making something that equals what the iPad does. They'll have to either put out a better all around product or their similar product will likely have to cost significantly less. It's a proven formula.

So, anyway, the part you got right is that there are a lot of uneducated consuemrs out there. That you think I have a horse in the race is the part where you went off-message.

I never said you had a horse in any race. You put that in there. Likely projecting as you've accused others of doing.

Nor did I say there were a ton of uneducated consumers out there. That was you.

Then by your own criteria, you dismiss your own previous assumptions about the reasons for the iPad's success, as they were no less general in nature. I doubt you will, however, as you don't feel your conclusions are anything less than matter-of-fact. That's human nature for you.

Consider both dismissed. What we are left with is your condescension.

 

[fanboy2000]

Hmmm....haven't checked out this thread in a while. I wonder what's going on. I feel a strange urge to click on it.

Such "fanboys" have very, very little effect on the overall market. First to market, perception that the product is better, and, bizarrely, the fact that the product probably actually is better for most of those people, all have a much, much bigger effect.

Oh, hey. I've been summoned. Cool.

Charges of fanboyism in the tech field are kind of strange. In pop culture, it's easy. When someone says something like: "Why did you read X? Why is so much better." Then we have a fanboy. (I'm an expert.) Another fanboy favorite is, "You like X? Well you should watch Y, it's soooo much better." It's like a recommendation, but, depending on tone of voice, it can come across as the recommender patting themselves on the back for being able to discover Y before you did and having better taste.

Books, movies, and tv shows have a subjective quality that makes those kinds of comments superfluous unless someone has an agenda. But tech products are supposed to be useful. If X helps you achieve a goal, then there you go. But Y may be legitimately better depending on your goals.

When a product is popular, I don't think charges of fanboyism are appropriate because usually one of the defining factors of fanboyism is snobbery. I mean, nobody claims that MS Office's success is because of all the Office fanboys out there. Sometimes, Office really is the best choice for a person. Usually, fanboys are the one's decrying how bad the popular product is and how good some alternative is.

With Apple and iPads, I think part of the confusion is that Apple is the #2 product in desktops and laptops but #1 in phones and tablets that it simultaneously has "alternative" and "mainstream" status in tech.

 

[Fast Learner]

If you avoid starting fights, you don't have to get your ire up.

Hilarious!

 

[IronWolf]

And that assumption is where you get into trouble. We are dealing in an area where one company created the market and continues to dominate it. The onus isn't on consumers to create diversity and competing products, that's on the makers of non-Apple tablets. Either a superior tablet at the same price point or something significantly cheaper for similar features, app support and performance is the only way to make consumers bother with something that isn't an established product.

And your statement of branding being overvalued only strikes true if the products from that brand/product line aren't doing what they are supposed to compared to competing products.

And before you make your own assumption about what I just said, it boils down to this: Both tablet manufacturers and consumers factor into the current market situation. They both made it what it currently is. And right now it's not the public's job to make change. It's the manufacturer's job to put something else out there worth buying. And since Apple created the market and continues to dominate it the other tablet makers are going to have to do more than just making something that equals what the iPad does. They'll have to either put out a better all around product or their similar product will likely have to cost significantly less. It's a proven formula.

I definitely agree with this. It isn't the consumer's job to prop up the corporation by buying a product that they don't feel is up to the same caliber of the iPad. The corporation needs to produce something that is a real competitor, then it will get me looking more closely at it.

As I said earlier, I went into the tablet realm wanting to buy an Android tablet because I figured one of the makers would release something comparable and I could save a few bucks. It just didn't happen in the year I waited to buy a tablet. Things have changed and there are better Android tablets out now than when I made my decision, but from my cursory looks (I am not in the market for a tablet at the moment) there hasn't been one that is more compelling than the iPad for now.

I hope that changes. I have no issues with competition in the marketplace, I'm just not going to be the one to prop that up with my dollars until there is something which is truly competitive when I look at the different tablets.

 

[Felon]

I never said you had a horse in any race.

Specifically, the line about "dripping with a sense that yours is the one that is right" is what I was referencing. I don't have a particular pet product or brand.

Nor did I say there were a ton of uneducated consumers out there. That was you.

Yes, I was saying the part you got right was that I said that. The part you don't have right is the inference that I'm just having a go at folks who don't agree with me, because there's really nothing I'm seeking agreeement on. If anything, I'm seeking a multitude of options rather than just any one.

Consider both dismissed. What we are left with is your condescension.

I don't know where you're getting that from. I'm about as smug or self-possessed as the average person on a forum. In this instance, Fast Learner prompted me repeatedly to come out and speak my mind, made it clear that he was going to persist until I indulged him, so I did. Would've kept it to myself otherwise.

 

[Fast Learner]

I don't know where you're getting that from. I'm about as smug or self-possessed as the average person on a forum. In this instance, Fast Learner prompted me repeatedly to come out and speak my mind, made it clear that he was going to persist until I indulged him, so I did. Would've kept it to myself otherwise.

Saying that the new iPad would sell in "stupidly high" numbers was certainly condescending. It was that very condescension that prompted my posting at all.

 

[John Crichton]

Specifically, the line about "dripping with a sense that yours is the one that is right" is what I was referencing. I don't have a particular pet product or brand.

Yes, but you do have an opinion. And that's what I was referring to.

Yes, I was saying the part you got right was that I said that. The part you don't have right is the inference that I'm just having a go at folks who don't agree with me, because there's really nothing I'm seeking agreeement on. If anything, I'm seeking a multitude of options rather than just any one.

Then your system of delivery needs a serious overhaul. Because it certainly isn't coming off like you are seeking anything at all.

I don't know where you're getting that from. I'm about as smug or self-possessed as the average person on a forum. In this instance, Fast Learner prompted me repeatedly to come out and speak my mind, made it clear that he was going to persist until I indulged him, so I did. Would've kept it to myself otherwise.

Placing the blame on others for what you do as opposed to owning it is the first sign that something could be wrong. Perhaps it's time to take a peak at your own posts again just to make sure you are coming off correctly.

I speak from experience as someone who didn't realize how he was coming off at certain times.

 

[Umbran]

Folks,

This thread's supposed to be about tablet computers. It seems instead to have become about the individuals speaking. Please stop making this personal.

Thanks.

 

[Banshee16]

It's not the consumer's job to promote any kind of competition between brands. It's the various companies job to do that. There are very real reasons Android is still behind in the tablet world that can't be attributed to either "slavish devotion," "blind consumption" or "buzz".

Right.....and marketing has nothing to do with it? I know plenty of people who've bought iPhones and/or iPads *because*. Because they were told it's "what they have to have", and they're "better". What do they actually use them for? Not much.

Apple's got 10 commercials playing every evening when I watch TV. It's ridiculous. Obviously that generates appetite for the products. When I see 5 Apple commercials in an hour, at some point I just want to pitch my coffee mug at the TV. I mean....ok, I get it. I should want to buy it. It's a magical product that will turn my life around, and make a better cup of java, to boot. I got that message from the last 1000 times I saw the commercial.

Hardware wise, many of the Android devices are just as good.....or better. The software is definitely catching up. Honeycomb definitely needed improvement, but I have ICS and iOS 5, and ICS is flat out better. Better use of space, better layout, better integration of Google services....heck, the voice recognition is better than that on my iPhone 4 running iOS 5.1 (I understand that the iPhone 4 doesn't have Siri).

But Apple absolutely kills it in the apps, and that, I think, is the big difference. Android is just not there with ecosystem. Google's making improvements....if you're living in the U.S. For the rest of us, no, the ecosystem is not there. My tablet absolutely doesn't have the choice in apps I'd have on an iPad. No question. But it's got a lot of great ones.

However.......I've never seen a commercial for my tablet in a year. I've probably been exposed to commercials for the iPad a good 2000 times in the last year. And for my own tablet, the only commercial I've seen is when I went to the manufacturer's website.

Many people I've talked with won't even TRY something different. It's just "I want an iPad". If I point out they can have one that costs less, has a longer lasting battery, a keyboard that can be attached to it, expandable memory, full control, USB ports to connect to other devices, and a higher resolution screen........they want an iPad. It's just not rational. Same thing with iPhone. They go all giddy over Facetime for the first week, and then never use it again. You ask what apps they have and....they haven't really downloaded any. I've got an iPhone, and easily have 140 apps on it...but the people I know who speak more positively about the phone than I do barely have any. Why is that? Why have the phone if you're not going to use it?

It's like the Tickle me Elmo craze, but with computer equipment. It's just not logical.

I'm not saying that the iPad is bad. It's not. It's a great device. But I AM saying that the case for it being better than its rivals, and that there is really only one viable option for tablets is incorrect. But the public is blasted with so much Apple PR that they don't know the difference. Having $100 Billion or whatever in the bank lets a company buy ALOT of ad time....which only reinforces the problem. They're basically at the point where the success of the product guarantees the further success of the product. Instead of the continued optimal quality of the product guaranteeing the success of it. In the long run that'll hurt consumers.

Banshee

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Success has its own inertia- that's one of the reasons why being the first good product in the market is so strongly correlated with having a successful company.

This is especially true when you want to talk about tech. One of the reasons why PCs outnumber Macs is that software advantage that started with the ability to run business software at home (as I recall, it was Lotus 1-2-3 that was the key program). That utility meant that there was a large market which the PCs filled perfectly. And that was an insurmountable obstacle for Apple ever being the #1 machine in the home computer market. Sure, it dominates in certain markets, but barring a megavirus that knocks out every non-Mac out there, that won't change.

As a Mac user, I can run most of the important programs of the day natively in Mac OS (according to some of my programmer buddies, sometimes better on the Mac than on PCs). For those I can't, I can run PC emulation software that is pretty dependable. Even so, sometimes, the Mac versions aren't as fully featured as PC versions. not as supported. Sometimes, the PC and Mac versions don't even speak to each other very well. (I've gone through this with spreadsheet programs and even financial software.)

PC users don't have to jump through those hoops- their compatibility is built in.

In the tablet market, the shoe is on the other foot. iPads run basically every app, so the early adopters went for it in droves. People who wanted to have 100% compatibility with their buddies' tablets gravitated towards the tablets their buddies had...usually iPads. That started the market domination snowball.

There ARE plenty of good tablets out there. There are some features I'd love to see on my iPad2 that are on some of the competition's machines...

But for what I do, and what I'm expecting to do in the near future, there really was no meaningful alternative to the iPads.