Can you give a specific example of something you might want to do that's "non-standard"?
D&D 5E D&D Next Design Goals (Article)
- Thread starter Thaumaturge
- Start date
Can you give a specific example of something you might want to do that's "non-standard"?
Sure! Swing from a chandelier, spur your horse to run faster, build a bridge, convince townsfolk your fake religion is real.
Mostly, the stuff newer editions roll into "skills".
I probably shouldn't have said "non-standard". I meant things not explicitly covered in the rules.
El Mahdi
Muad'Dib of the Anauroch
I believe you've nailed it on the head!
Yeah, I think they're casting it as wide as possible also. We'll just have to wait and see once the open playtest starts (not the public playtest, which is a different animal) whether or not that net covers each of us individually or not. If it doesn't, then we'll have our chance to really influence the design to try and get that net as wide as possible.
I think those that are already saying at this point, that it's likely not for them, are making very poor assumptions. Perhaps they're just naturally glass-half-empty people (which seems a truly sad way to live IMO), or maybe they're just taking an opportunity the early stages of the process is granting, for them to rant in ways that usually aren't allowed here at ENWorld.
I don't know for sure which it is, but I hope that once the game comes out, and those people have made their final decision (if they haven't already), that they'll just go away, have fun playing their game, and stop trying to rain on everybody else's parade.So far though, I like the direction the design team is heading. I like that 5E is not going to be any previous edition, but a new edition that can be played as any previous edition. If it turns out as they've said, I see it as a Win-Win for everybody! If it doesn't, then I'll keep playing my game. Though I'll likely buy 5E anyways, just to be ready with a more universal edition if necessary, or to be ready to play with other groups.
El Mahdi
Muad'Dib of the Anauroch
Yes they do. You're just looking in the glossary for the wrong term, or looking in the wrong book.
They're in the Monster Manual under Cloven-hoofed Satyr-kin...
This kind of stuff happens all the time in my game. We use ACKS, it's a B/X+ with rules for the cost of bridges and whatnot, so that helps. But, it'd be the same sort of resolution in my game:
So, swinging from a chandelier? That depends. Are you close enough to grab it with a leap? Sure. You do it. Why wouldn't you be able to?
Spur your horse faster? Sure. You can use "forced march".
Build a bridge? Ok. It'll require X amount of lumber and other materials, take X days (less if you have helpers and good tools).
Convince townsfolk? That depends. Do my townsfolk have reason to disbelieve you? Probably. You're an out of town adventurer. We don't know you. So, I'll roll a reaction roll for that. Add your charisma modifier. Reaction rolls are 2d6, so depending on what you roll is how friendly they are to this notion. Higher is better.
Vyvyan Basterd
Adventurer
How do you determine if a particular characacter is close enough?
How do I determine if a particular character can step up a staircase without difficulty? Or, whether a wall needs a rope to be climbed? Or, whether the water is so deep the PC has to swim instead of wading? Or, whether a height is short enough to drop down from without taking damage? Or, whether a PC can jump up and grab onto a ledge? Or, whether a bucket of water is enough to put out some raging flames? Or, whether someone is close enough for them to hear you if you shout across the waterfall?
Here's my method:
- I consult my prep. I consult the established fiction. What have we determined so far? Then, with honesty and impartiality, I let the player know what is true or not.
- The player may then ask me questions about the environment. I answer them to the best of my knowledge, filling in the details using my principles - make the world fantastic but real, make the PCs lives not boring, and put the PCs in positions to make decisions.
- Then, the player uses the knowledge to move forward with a course of action.
"You're standing at the edge of the riverbank, where this raging, roaring waterfall tumbles down 40'. On the far side of the bank, a good 50 yards across from where you stand, there is a woman in a red robe washing her hands in the water. She doesn't seem to notice you yet. It's then you notice several orcs with the blood moon tabard you saw earlier creeping out of the forest behind her. What do you do?"
"Am I close enough that if I shout, she will hear me?"
"You would have to shout pretty loudly, and she might not be able to make out your specific words. But, you'd get her attention."
"Great. I shout at her and wave my hands to get her attention."
"It works. She looks up and sees you, but motions to her ear as if she can't make out what you are saying. And, the orcs are getting closer to her. What do you do?"
I don't have him roll a "Shout Check". I just set up the scene and we negotiate the outcome based on the description of his actions.
Here's another example.
"You're standing on the second floor balcony above the open air main tavern hall. The balcony wraps around the whole inn, with doors leading to rooms. The floor below you, a good 20' or so is filled with tavern patrons. Five chandeliers hang in the shape of a square, with one in the center, over them with the end of the chandeliers being maybe 15' off the floor - enough for you to hang and maybe drop onto a table safely. Belvor's men are climbing up the stairwell in the northeastern corner of the inn toward the second floor balcony. What do you do?"
"Crap. I can't go that way. I want to leap onto one of the chandeliers and hop down onto a table. Are they close enough to do that?"
"They are several feet away from the second story. You'll have to climb up onto the banister to be able to leap over to them. You won't be able to without holding anything in your hands, so you'll have to stow your dagger. And, they are just close enough to hang from the chandelier with your arms, so you'll be swinging there with your feet dangling. But you can do it."
"Ok. I'm going to do it anyways. I stow my dagger between my teeth and leap out."
"You grab onto the chandelier, and your momentum carries the chandelier further from the table than you expected. You dangle wildly from the chandelier and Belvor's men immediately see you. One of them starts climbing up onto the banister to follow you out there while the others bump into each other as they start changing course back down the stairs. It'll take a few seconds for the chandelier to swing back toward the table it was hanging over. You can wait on it and land safely on your feet on the table, giving Belvor's men time to get back down the stairs, or go ahead and drop down to the floor but risk falling damage. What do you do?"
I don't need a "Jump Check".
Maybe I say, "No, they are too far out to reach." And the player has to send his character back into the room and look for a window to climb down with some sheets, or whatever. It all depends on my prep, what honesty demands and what the fiction demands.
We just establish the fiction and what can happen, happens. "There is a narrow set of stairs leading down into the dungeon." "Ok, we carefully walk down them with Bob the Fighter in the front."
I don't roll a "Walk Check".
Now, when do I roll checks? When there is some sort of conflict.
"One of the Belvor's men charges and leaps out on the chandelier you are hanging on. He grabs hold and suddenly the chandelier is spinning out of control, with both of you dangling there. Roll for initiative. Ok, Belvor's man wins. He tries to kick you from the chandelier so you fall to the floor 10' below..."
Roll an attack. Allow the player a saving throw. That kind of thing.
Incenjucar
Legend
It would be more efficient to say "DM Fiat."
Sure, if you think DM fiat is the term for every thing a DM does. Sure.
But, in most cases, DM Fiat is a pejorative term for when DMs make unfounded, baseless decisions.
That's not what a DM does. And, it's sad that you think that. ::shrug::
Hey Incenjucar, how do you determine whether someone is close enough to make a Perception check to hear a noise?
Vyvyan Basterd
Adventurer
No, I think you're attributing something to Incenjucar that he doesn't believe, and I know you are doing so in my case. DM Fiat is when a decision is made by the DM when no rule covers the action specifically or a decision is made without tying it to a similar rule. It is not necessarily unfounded or baseless. It is quite useful in many situations that occur outside the rules. It's not something that has disappeared with each edition of D&D, just lessened.
But it also has an effect of being an on/off switch. The example of the chandelier is a good one. There is no way in the system you are playing to improve one's jumping ability or the acrobatics of swinging on a chandelier. You are left as DM to say either yes or no. There's nothing wrong with that style of play. I enjoyed it for years and many people still do. But other people enjoy being able to devote character training resources to be better at certain things they are interested in. To each their own.
Similar Threads
