If all the designers who left WotC...

[Kzach]

With Monte leaving WotC (again), it seems that there is an ongoing trend within the corporate, Hasbroified atmosphere to alienate and cast-off great designers at the drop of a hat. With the success of Pathfinder, it made me wonder: why does everyone still flock to WotC?

It seems to me that Hasbro has become the literal flame that designers fight so hard to fly into and then wonder why they get burnt. Instead of flocking to the light, what would happen if all the cast-offs instead got together and created NOT-D&D?

3e was different enough from 2e that with a few adjustments, it could've easily avoided any licensing issues. The same could be said for 4e. And without the constraints of D&D sacred cows (and the meanie-heads who complain about everything), they would have much greater freedom to design a truly spectacular system.

Imagine a world without Hasbro, where designers can fly unrestrained by corporate ties and Magic the Gathering! Oh, what a world that would be!

 

[fireinthedust]

Not hating here, but we don't know the real story behind why he left. For all we know there were... I don't know, other complications.

What bothers me is the idea that we assume these professional game designers have the same issues that normal gamers have, such that they can't get it together and run the world's most famous role-playing game. Yes, there are gamers out there who throw hissy fits that they can't GM the game they want; or who rant endlessly about how the entire hobby is going down the drain. That doesn't mean a literally world-famous game designer like Monte Cook is going to go nova, flip off "the man" and storm off like a teenager.

EDIT: and for the record, I truly don't think that's what happened. Could be creative differences with management's directions/needs, could be contract-related, or it could be that Monte has a fantastic product he wants to work on and feels like he'd be putting the ideas into 5e instead of what he's working on. Wouldn't be the first designer to do that.

And everyone wants to work for Wizards of the Coast because everyone else buys their stuff. And they have the biggest budget and the most money and recognition. And access to the best artists in game design. And departments who handle stuff, like finances, computer development, and software for making characters sheets... (drool, drool, foam)

 

[Kzach]

Not hating here, but we don't know the real story behind why he left. For all we know there were... I don't know, other complications.

No, we don't. But we have past history to call upon, like, for instance, mass firings every Christmas.

What bothers me is the idea that we assume these professional game designers have the same issues that normal gamers have, such that they can't get it together and run the world's most famous role-playing game. Yes, there are gamers out there who throw hissy fits that they can't GM the game they want; or who rant endlessly about how the entire hobby is going down the drain. That doesn't mean a literally world-famous game designer like Monte Cook is going to go nova, flip off "the man" and storm off like a teenager.

Umm... nowhere did I even hint at this. In fact, it's pretty clear that I'm placing the blame on corporate Hasbro interference.

And everyone wants to work for Wizards of the Coast because everyone else buys their stuff. And they have the biggest budget and the most money and recognition. And access to the best artists in game design. And departments who handle stuff, like finances, computer development, and software for making characters sheets... (drool, drool, foam)

Budgets that get wasted on projects that fail dismally because of corporate restraints, like... say... Gleemax... and the original Virtual Game Table...

Big budgets and massive resources don't make quality gaming materials; talented people do, as is evidenced with Pathfinder and Paizo (and I'm not even a fan of the system).

 

[wingsandsword]

Well, from his livejournal post, all Monte would say is that he had no complaint with his fellow designers, his disagreement was with the corporate end of things, and that between NDA's and wanting to avoid drama, he would not say anything more.

Beyond that, it's speculation.

I can say that Monte Cook leaving WotC, apparently in some kind of disagreement with the company, makes me worried about 5e and the direction it is taking (such as a design mandate coming down from Corporate that Mr. Cook didn't like, or further codification of the "edition treadmill" like saying that 5e/D&D Next would be the edition for "X" years and they were already planning 6e at the same time).

I trust Monte Cook as a game designer, and I do wonder if WotC realizes that game designers are not just interchangable hacks that they can easily replace.

It reminds me a little of a story I heard with production of The Simpsons: I remember reading that in the late '90's FOX threatened to fire all the voice actors when their contracts came up for renewal and replace them with inexperienced actors who would demand far less money on the grounds that the "suits" thought that nobody would know the difference.

As for designers creating a new fantasy RPG away from WotC, I would wish them well, but at this point I think that the D&D name itself goes a long way to selling the game (but not all the way, as the edition wars showed), and a non-D&D fantasy RPG that was D&Desque has been done countless times in gaming history. Good luck with it, but I am skeptical.

 

[Greatwyrm]

Instead of flocking to the light, what would happen if all the cast-offs instead got together and created NOT-D&D?

Well, maybe something like this?

Veteran Game Designers Rob Heinsoo and Jonathan Tweet Announce 13th Age: A 'Love Letter' to Their Favorite Dungeon-Crawling Fantasy Game

Pelgrane Press Ltd 13th Age

 

[MerricB]

With Monte leaving WotC (again), it seems that there is an ongoing trend within the corporate, Hasbroified atmosphere to alienate and cast-off great designers at the drop of a hat. With the success of Pathfinder, it made me wonder: why does everyone still flock to WotC?

Because they get paid.

Seriously: game designer is not a well-paid profession, and there would be very few RPG companies that pay as well as Wizards.

In addition, the resources Wizards can bring to bear on a product are significantly more than most companies can muster.

 

[RangerWickett]

Many adventurers have delved into the accursed dungeon of the Wizards of the Coast, hoping to usurp the beast that lairs in its dark heart, to rise as the new Archmage, master of Dungeons and of Dragons.

Let us raise a toast to another fallen would-be ruler. May he be resurrected so he can try to defeat the Golem of Paizo.

 

[Asmor]

Imagine a world without Hasbro, where designers can fly unrestrained by corporate ties and Magic the Gathering! Oh, what a world that would be!

Wow. A world without Magic: the Gathering. That would be such a Utopia!

I can see it now. No Magic means Wizards of the Coast never develops beyond a little rinky-dink basement operation. They never buy TSR, who finally end up declaring bankruptcy, and the D&D brand gets purchased for a song by Steve Jackson Games. Hooray, we finally have D&D GURPS!

Ooh, and look at that, all across the US, all these hobby stores that were dying are never revitalized by the cash cow of Magic and Pokemon and Yu-gi-oh, never mind all the gaming stores that never get started.

With all those game stores gone, SJG and Avalon Hill and Fantasy Flight Games never really get very big, either. When Settlers of Catan hits the US, there aren't enough venues for it to reach critical mass, delaying or outright destroying the whole designer boardgame surge in the US. Not even sure if AEG ever would have existed; seems likely that without Magic, we'd never have had L5R...

Am I being hyperbolisitc? Probably, although by how much I don't know. But I stand by my point that regardless of how you feel about the game itself, as someone who enjoys hobby games, you should be down on your knees thanking the fates that Magic: the Gathering exists.

 

[Gold Roger]

On Monte, I've said it on the news thread and I'll reapeat it once here: I guess he left for similar reasons, as he left once before. I simply don't believe it to be a biggy in the big picture.

As for wotc (or rather hasbro), they hold the holy flame of RPG's, the big name, D&D. You can't resist getting involved, even fully knowing you'll get burned.

D&D is just to big a name to keep out of corporate hands, but will never be profitable enough to gain the leeway it deserves.

Just look at computer and videogame developers, who provide much more reveniue. Then look how they get treated by their publishers. A tip, it ain't pretty.

Despite including some amazing creative heads, game designer is far from a respected profession and unless you have some good way to secure your life from another source, going into it, you consign yourself to be a cosmic plaything. Considering that a spell of one, two or, with luck, more years at wotc is very enticing.


Right, that's quite a bit more serious than I allow myself to get on the internet usually, so, let me head back to sillytown.

 

[Umbran]

With Monte leaving WotC (again), it seems that there is an ongoing trend within the corporate, Hasbroified atmosphere to alienate and cast-off great designers at the drop of a hat. With the success of Pathfinder, it made me wonder: why does everyone still flock to WotC?

Well, a couple of things:

1) Paizo doesn't have nearly as aggressive a publication schedule - they only need so many designers. While technically they can do third party work, that traditionally doesn't make good returns.

2) I think we need to look at the past - is it really a Hasbro issue? Did WotC before Hasbro, or TSR before WotC, hold on to designers for long?