are Lions size Large?

[wingsandsword]

So, would it need a 5 by 5 square or a 10 by 10 square, and is it big enough that a person could theoretically ride it, two big rules determinants of if it's size large or medium

Looking at the evidence, I'm inclined to call it Large. It would be a tight fit to cram it into a 5 foot square and call that giving it equivalent fighting space to a person.

 

[Argyle King]

1 square high by 2 squares long seems most accurate to me. If I'm forced to use perfectly square/cubed game spaces, I feel they are closer to being large (2x2) than medium (1x1).

 

[frankthedm]

Lions and apes IMHO would be better at medium with some sort of Powerful Build type ability. Pack hunters work better when they don't each take up 2"x2".

 

[fireinthedust]

Lions and apes IMHO would be better at medium with some sort of Powerful Build type ability. Pack hunters work better when they don't each take up 2"x2".

Which is a great reason to have a female lion build in addition to the male lion size large.

 

[Klaus]

Back in the day, a 7-foot-tall gnoll was Large. Now it's considered Medium.

Lions (and tigers) should be Medium, as they're definitely not horse-sized.

Speaking of which, there should also be Medium horses (in addition to the Large ones), to account for breeds like the Icelandic Horse:

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Reaching sizes of 11' and weights up to 700lbs, there is even a stronger case for Tigers being L than for Lions.

 

[Klaus]

Reaching sizes of 11' and weights up to 700lbs, there is even a stronger case for Tigers being L than for Lions.

That's usually with tail factored in. Most tigers top at 7' long (plus tail). Only the Siberian Tiger tends to reach larger sizes (and these would be the exceptional Large specimens).

Here's a picture of a Russian museum taxidermy exhibit of a Siberian Tiger attacking an Asian Black Bear (which tends to top out at 6'6"):

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[Dannyalcatraz]

Length, yes, the tail gets factored in...but at 700lbs, that is more than 3x the mass of a typical human male.

SRD

These values are typical for creatures of the indicated size. Some exceptions exist.
Fine +8 -16 +16 6 in. or less 1/8 lb. or less ½ ft. 0 ft. 0 ft.
Diminutive +4 -12 +12 6 in. - 1 ft. 1/8 lb. - 1 lb. 1 ft. 0 ft. 0 ft.
Tiny +2 -8 +8 1 ft. - 2 ft. 1 lb. - 8 lb. 2½ ft. 0 ft. 0 ft.
Small +1 -4 +4 2 ft. - 4 ft. 8 lb. - 60 lb. 5 ft. 5 ft. 5 ft.
Medium +0 +0 +0 4 ft. - 8 ft. 60 lb. - 500 lb. 5 ft. 5 ft. 5 ft.
Large -1 +4 -4 8 ft. - 16 ft. 500 lb. - 2 tons 10 ft. 10 ft. 5 ft.
Huge -2 +8 -8 16 ft. - 32 ft. 2 tons - 16 tons 15 ft. 15 ft. 10 ft.
Gargantuan -4 +12 -12 32 ft. - 64 ft. 16 tons - 125 tons 20 ft. 20 ft. 15 ft.
Colossal -8 +16 -16 64 ft. or more 125 tons or more 30 ft. 30 ft. 20 ft.

At that weight, they fall solidly within the mass listed for Large creatures.

 

[fireinthedust]

Length, yes, the tail gets factored in...but at 700lbs, that is more than 3x the mass of a typical human male.



At that weight, they fall solidly within the mass listed for Large creatures.

Siberian Tigers, sure, but by that chart Lions are Medium.

The Pathfinder Bestiary has their lion stat as a Dire Lion size Large. That's a good call, imo, because it gets the big size and it doesn't get into this argument!

The lions in Conan's time should be Large, though, larger than our current beasts. Not super big, but large enough that they can dwarf even a big PC hero.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Adult male lions are right on that chart's line- they can exceed 500lbs, but not often- so yeah, Dire should be large.