Wizards: Already Too Strong?

[The Little Raven]

I used Burning Hands on the room filled with rats, which only served to make them flee out of the room, but it did, at least, end the combat.

Were the rats in the Burning Hands' area of effect? Because if they were, they should have died since the bare minimum (with a successful save and the lowest possible damage roll) that the spell can do is 2 damage, which is more than their 1 hit point. If they were in range and the DM had them flee, then you got screwed out of what the spell should have accomplished.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I really like the way 5e works for wizards.

I really want rolling to identfy magic auras back with detect magic though.

I also wonder if they chose Magic missle at will as a comprmize to the at will magic attack/crossbow crowds.

I auto hit for 1d4+1-4d4+4 (2-5 through 8-20) or 50-60% hit rate with a d8+x

 

[eamon]

I agree, good points.

I'd only qualify that spamming the best 'pew pew pew' cantrip is not my personal fave in terms of fun/distinctive gameplay. Feedback I will surely give to WoTC

Yeah, and I agree on the cantrip part (same with shocking grasp, though the danger factor makes it more entertaining )

That makes me wonder if a slightly higher level playtest wouldn't be more interesting. Probably one of those "future playtest packets" they talk about.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I can't shake the feeling this 5e wiz has the traditional 1e drawbacks, but with nerfed spells (no scaling, easier saves), and that spamming the admittedly decent cantrips to bridge the gap won't work for long, espec into mid levels.

I don't think so. To me the two biggest 1e drawbacks are
1: d4 hit points, rolled. Gone the way of the dodo.
2: 1 spell/day at first level. Our guy here gets 3 + cantrips.

Not when the dwarf with the big axe is after your blood and likely to plant that big axe into your back. If the Wizard is out front and not hiding behind the dwarf, that may be a different story.

If the wizard is using shocking grasp then IMO he is close enough to qualify. And if he's away from the dwarf and I have allies then going after the wizard is putting distance between me and that damn dwarf. The other guys can try attacking him. I'll go for the guy without the axe and armour.

 

[mcintma]

I don't think so. To me the two biggest 1e drawbacks are
1: d4 hit points, rolled. Gone the way of the dodo.
2: 1 spell/day at first level. Our guy here gets 3 + cantrips.

1) If I have understood 5e correctly, at new levels this 5e wiz only gets d4 as well, except 1s are =2 (con). Not a huge diff, and HP inflation (compare 5e monster HPs to 1e) means that the extra HP this guy got from lvl1 may not be effectively more in the context of the 5e system (i.e. bigger monster damage).

2) True, it was clerics that got bonus spells for high Wis (of course). 1e wiz was very much "suck at low and own the world at high lvl" I mean hi-lvl 1e wiz spells are far deadlier and more open-ended than say 3.5e (e.g. temporal stasis, wish, even fireball)

BTW, I don't think this 5e wiz is "OMG horribly underpowered" or anything, I just took exception to the title of this thread. IMO this guy looks super-duper at 1st because his cantrips can scare minor monsters, and he gets a 1-time HP boost - but with this design I think he'll be in serious trouble past, say, 5th level, where both those factors will be fading fast.

 

[mach1.9pants]

I agree, good points.

I'd only qualify that spamming the best 'pew pew pew' cantrip is not my personal fave in terms of fun/distinctive gameplay. Feedback I will surely give to WoTC

The pew pew pew of magic missile is a lot more wizardy than the twang thump of the lt crossbow. My 6 year old was very disappointed in this aspect of his pathfinder beginner box wizard, he could see the 1d3 cantrip was pointless mathematically.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I've posted elsewhere ... OK with auto-hit MM as a minor if it does not scale with level. I'd prefer a scaling MM, so make it a level 1 spell, and give the wizard a minor spell with an attack roll (acid/fire/frost orb or something) and 1d6 damage instead.

 

[The Little Raven]

I've posted elsewhere ... OK with auto-hit MM as a minor if it does not scale with level. I'd prefer a scaling MM, so make it a level 1 spell, and give the wizard a minor spell with an attack roll (acid/fire/frost orb or something) and 1d6 damage instead.

I don't mind a scaling auto-hit magic missile, so long as it scales slower or with lower bonuses in order to keep it on the power curve.

 

[Neonchameleon]

1) If I have understood 5e correctly, at new levels this 5e wiz only gets d4 as well, except 1s are =2 (con). Not a huge diff, and HP inflation (compare 5e monster HPs to 1e) means that the extra HP this guy got from lvl1 may not be effectively more in the context of the 5e system (i.e. bigger monster damage).

Mea culpa. I meant that 1d4 hit points are the wizard's weakness. Adding your con score to your hit points strongly mitigates it.

 

[Argyle King]

It's not clear that a rogue could learn cantrips like that - I'm imagining he can't (wasn't possible in previous editions that easily, anyhow), but there's no way to know. It's not likely to be that attractive, however, since he's probably not int-focused, and why not just use a weapon?

In any case, if a rogue does somehow manage to get sneak attack to apply to a cantrip, I don't think it matters - flavorful for that particular PC, perhaps, but unlikely to matter much otherwise.

The theme taken by the wizard grants two cantrips. While I'm aware we have a playtest version of it, I see no reason why a rogue could not take the current version of the theme.