Combat issues: slayer + at-will magic missile.

[Eridanis]

Just a general note to remind everyone to keep edition warring out of these kind of threads, and to stay on topic. Thank you.

 

[FireLance]

I personally don't see automatic damage as a problem, but to address these concerns, maybe we should have a rule that a missed attack cannot reduce the target's hp to 0 or below. That way, the final blow that kills an opponent will always be a hit.

If you like, you can also flip it around for saving throws, i.e. if you pass your saving throw, you will always have at least 1 hp left.

This way, for magic missile, the wizard deals automatic damage, but must roll to see if he "hits" an opponent with low hit points. Alternatively, the low-hp opponent must succeed on a Dexterity save or die.

 

[patrick y.]

That's just the point: at 1st level Kobolds should BE a threat. A 1st-level Fighter one-on-one against a Kobold should usually win but that victory should by no means be assured.

Kobolds have been cannon fodder for decades. The whole reason DM's got into trying to wipe out parties using only fiendishly cunning kobolds was because they've always been pathetic.

 

[I'm A Banana]

That's just the point: at 1st level Kobolds should BE a threat. A 1st-level Fighter one-on-one against a Kobold should usually win but that victory should by no means be assured.

Respectfully, I disagree.

Kobolds are the scum on the bottom of the barrel in D&D. They are not threats themselves. That's why they build traps, fight strategically, run away frequently, use overwhelming numbers, and duplicitous tactics.

A fighter is a paragon of strength and power, an elite warrior trained in the ways of combat.

Kobolds are junk to that guy.

What makes a kobold dangerous isn't the individual kobold, but their quantity, their cunning, their ruthlessness, and their traps.

Admittedly, I think these kobolds in the playtest could use a bit more mechanical oomph behind those ideas, but their HP is right where a kobold's should be, IMO: The Worst.

 

[LostSoul]

Number of problems with at-will magic missile with an attack roll: it's not D&D.

Magic Missile requires an attack roll in OD&D.

 

[Stalker0]

I personally would like to prevent MM from scaling, I agree that autoscaling doesn't seem the place for cantrips.

Further, even if the damage doesn't scale, there is always a use for autohitting.

Player: "Quick, cut the rope and drop the bricks on them!"
Wizard: "I got this" Casts MM.

 

[Gorgoroth]

...

Magic Missile, in my 2nd edition evoker, was rarely used, because I'd often be better off using a different first level spell at that level. I cast it maybe a dozen times in 5 years of playing up to level 14. Lightning Bolt, on the other hand....

If I had Magic Missile at-will I would have spammed it and used all my other spell slots for first level spells on sleep or charm person or other stuff useful outside of combat. I do see the benefit of making it require an attack roll since it's unlimited, but in a wizard vs wizard fight, rings of MM protection should be common enough, and memorizing that should be a no-brainer if you are going up against another wizard and don't want your other spells auto-interrupted. Just delay your turn till right after their next blast and the interrupt protection should go up one segment later. Bam, done.

I do like the idea of an at-will choice that does more damage but requires a roll too, b/c some people like to gamble and others like to have some quick rounds that require no thought to keep combats flowing quickly for everyone, b/c wizards often take longer turns to evaluate more complex spell effects with the DM on his "big show" rounds.

 

[patrick y.]

I personally would like to prevent MM from scaling, I agree that autoscaling doesn't seem the place for cantrips.

Further, even if the damage doesn't scale, there is always a use for autohitting.

Player: "Quick, cut the rope and drop the bricks on them!"
Wizard: "I got this" Casts MM.

I've been musing on the idea of having MM scale if you memorize it as a 1st level spell. So, the wizard retains it as an at will cantrip that does d4+1, but he could also choose to memorize it as a 1st level spell that scales up by 1 missile every 2 caster levels, to a maximum of 5 missiles.

 

[jadrax]

I personally would like to prevent MM from scaling, I agree that autoscaling doesn't seem the place for cantrips.

Further, even if the damage doesn't scale, there is always a use for autohitting.

Player: "Quick, cut the rope and drop the bricks on them!"
Wizard: "I got this" Casts MM.

Currently, if you accept how the spell is worded, that would only work if the rope was a 'creature'.

Although if not, the fact that Magic Missile basically trivialises all such situations, is the biggest issue with it.

 

[The Little Raven]

I personally would like to prevent MM from scaling, I agree that autoscaling doesn't seem the place for cantrips.

I disagree. I think an at-will spell that a character is expected to use throughout his entire career should scale in some way to keep it somewhat interesting.