Combat issues: slayer + at-will magic missile.

[darjr]

how about let Mage hand deal a small bit of damage. Darthvader like?

 

[Cerebral Paladin]

I agree with Stalker0. And as for how it scales, well, let's wait to see how it scales (or doesn't). I don't see anything wrong with some characters having a power that lets them do small amounts of damage on a miss. Yes, it means they can't fail to kill a kobold, but why is that a problem? It would make me tempted as a player to improvise "I attack two kobolds at once" ("Okay GM, can I pick up one kobold and beat another to death with it?") for variety, especially if there are lots of them, but I don't know that I'd complain about an autokill or three.

As for MM... maybe. The question is really how it scales compared to other people's damage. If the slayer fighter is doing expected damage per round of, I dunno, 14 on a hit /2 (because of missing half the time) plus 3/2 (because of missing and slayering half the time)=8.5/round, and a rogue is doing 7.5/2 (missing half the time) plus 3.5/4 (sneak attack half the time, missing half the time)=roughly 4.65/round, then the wizard's 3.5 per round at 1st level seems not at all problematic. (I worry if the rogue is then a tad underpowered, actually.) The wizard is lagging behind the damage curve, but that's correct, because the per day spells surge way above the damage curve. The question is, is it too far behind the curve? And there I'm not sure--the wizard can autokill kobolds, but can't kill an orc or hobgoblin even with max damage, even in 2 rounds, at the same time as the fighter is frequently one-shotting orcs and hobgoblins. But that might still be right because of when the wizard breaks out the sleep or does 8 hp on average to a group of 6 goblins that fail their saves against burning hands, killing them all.

The other question is how at 9th level, 14 points/round from the wizard's magic missiles will compare to the expected damage from the fighter or the rogue. We can't calculate that without actually seeing what the 9th level fighters and mages look like... but I predict that 14 points at 9th level will be no worse than 3.5 at 1st level.

I'm entirely willing to be proved wrong by play, but at an analysis level, these don't seem like big problems.

 

[1Mac]

I think MM sounds fine. I prefer a Mage/Wizard casting MMs than throw daggers or wield a crossbow, as to converse spells.

But can you explain why you think this is "a little crazy"?

Me too! But if it's going to be akin to a magic crossbow, there needs to be a ranged attack check. But at this stage in the playtest there isn't, which is what I find a little crazy. It's automatic damage versus anyone you can see that scales with level, no check required, no limit on it's use.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I have no problem with the auto-hit, 1d4+1 MM -- but it should not scale with level if it's a minor spell.

I'd prefer to keep it scaling and make it a 1st level spell; give the wizard a minor spell that includes an attack roll for 1d6 damage -- an acid/fire/frost orb or something. Or else keep it minor bit make it only one missile.

 

[slobster]

I have no problem with the auto-hit, 1d4+1 MM -- but it should not scale with level if it's a minor spell.

With the focus on flatter math in the attack and defense departments, it seems like the main ways your character gets better as he levels up are going to be an increase in options, an increase in hp, and an increase in damage output.

With that in mind, I believe that at-will spells should absolutely scale. Otherwise your wizard starts the game with a useful at-will option in combat that eventually fades into uselessness, leaving him to rely only on his daily powers.

 

[Sunseeker]

I think it's fine the way it is. A minor creature can be taken out of the combat by a PC each round. Kobolds will be dangerous only in numbers. That's... just peachy.

I agree, since when were we worried about Kobolds being a serious challenge? Kobolds have been statted as being little more than trash XP for MANY editions.

 

[mach1.9pants]

If MM didn't scale then it would quickly become irrelevant and, unless the wiz gets 3e level number of spells (which I think they have said no to), would mean the wiz quickly being totally out of options.
I think slobster is right, increasing damage is a big part of the design

 

[LordGraz'zt]

Is it just me or is the OP of this thread just a troll?

He seems to start a bunch of nonsensical posts and then doesnt comment in the threads he creates?

 

[grimslade]

I'm just not seeing an at-will MM as too much of a problem. Auto hit but low damage is a good trade off. Yes it is godly vs a kobold. A dagger can reduce a kobold to a fine paste. MM vs a dark cultist is a good opportunity for the cultist to get another action next round. I don't like the scaling because it is a different mechanic than the rest of spell casting. I have no solution because MM is MM but now in an at-will flavor.

The damage on a miss mechanic is weird on paper and makes little simulation sense, but it sure helps the slayer theme live up to its name in play. We played it as the Great Axe carving into flesh on a hit and hitting armor on a miss, but the force of the blow cracked ribs, or crushed in the rib cage on the unfortunate kobolds. Shorty and his axe chainsawed through weak opponents, even worse at 3rd level with cleave, but against a stronger opponents it just became a little extra damage to reinforce the killer PC in the cultists midst.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Dude, they're kobolds.

Kobolds.

Chew through them and move on to the bigger threats.