What to do about the 15-minute work day?

[El Mahdi]

What to do about the 15-minute workday?

More short rests, and more at-will or encounter based spells/resources.

I agree with those above though, about realistic and organic responses to parties leaving to rest and then coming back. The "dungeon" is going to respond and adapt...

 

[TwinBahamut]

Answered both "mechanics to discourage" and "other".

What really needs to be done is to change the entire framework of the game so that it simply isn't a problem. If you simply remove the possibility of going nova and being unable to progress, then there is nothing to worry about. That requires a rather fundamental shift if how things like D&D magic work, but I'm totally okay with that. I've never really been a fan of "daily" powers, anyways.

Even having a "full refresh" mechanic that is totally different than "extended rest" would be nice. Something that could be used to describe a full team recovery that doesn't require 24 hours of time to pass would itself solve some of the problems. Other problems are solved by properly balancing classes so that one class isn't vastly more powerful than the rest when going nova is an option.

I've seen this managed fairly well in all kinds of games. Saying this is just a problem with DMing and that the DM needs to be the one to work hard to solve this is just poor effort on the designer's part and something approaching badwrongfun-ism on the part of others.

I have no desire to play a game that is only balanced in the context of a dungeon delve when I pretty much never actually use dungeons in D&D.

 

[Shadeydm]

I have no desire to play a game that is only balanced in the context of a dungeon delve when I pretty much never actually use dungeons in D&D.

So the designers have said that DDN is only balanced in the context of a dungeon delve? Wow I really need to read those articles more carefully.

 

[MarkB]

Explore resource regeneration options other than daily or encounter. FATE does this very well, though I don't think the mechanic could be adapted wholesale.

 

[Croesus]

So the fifteen-(or five) minute work day is the hot topic of discussion on the boards. I figured it was time for a poll. What do you think?

Thinking back to my OD&D and 1E days, I'm wondering if this is more a question of adventure and encounter design, not specific rules.

Take a group of 5th level 1E characters. They're in the dungeon and encounter a dozen orcs. Sure they could just stand back and have the magic user throw a fireball to clean out the room. But that's the magic user's only 3rd level spell. And the 5th level fighters can easily clear out a dozen orcs - if the dice don't cooperate, the cleric can throw a quick bless on the party. Then they loot the room and move on.

But if every encounter is designed to match the party, or use up 1/4 of the party's resources (ala 3.x), then sure, players are going to nova whenever, wherever. Change this so that an adventure only has a handful - or just one - really challenging encounter, and groups will tend to play through.

One other thing - players need a way to evaluate the opposition, even if only with a ballpark guess of it's strength. If any given orc can be a 12th level barbarian, players will tend to assume every encounter is so dangerous, they have to go in with all guns blazing. I'm not suggesting telling players exactly what they're facing - what's the fun in that? . But the more clueless they are, the more difficult it will be to convince them to ration limited resources.

 

[Griego]

It's never been a problem on our tables.

I've never gone hungry either, but that doesn't mean that people aren't starving somewhere in the world. It's still a problem to be acknowledged and hopefully solved some day.

 

[BobTheNob]

If the players feel that the world their characters live in is a breathing living world then the so-called 15 minute adventuring day should not happen. There is nothing artificial about a world that reacts to your characters' actions. I've never played with the idea I could just take full rests wherever I want, whenever I want without some potential consequences. We wouldn't even leave our horses unguarded for fear of being stolen or eaten.

Pretty much.

The 15 minute day only occurs in a static world. Thats just a bad habbit DM's get into. Get in the habbit of making sure your creatures arent just target dummy's waiting for the party to come and shoot them and the 15 minute day stops happening.

 

[Pour]

Other: Make enticing alternatives based around regenerative resources and temporary level advancement.

Turn the 5MW into a tactical option, but not always the best one, through good design and the proposed advice. You can't give advice on how to avoid a symptom of the system. Rather, provide alternatives in the system and let parties weigh the pros and cons of resting for level-appropriate resources, or investing in regenerative options, or pushing on ahead for temporary level-ups through a sort of heroics/momentum rule.

 

[Minigiant]

Pretty much.

The 15 minute day only occurs in a static world. Thats just a bad habbit DM's get into. Get in the habbit of making sure your creatures arent just target dummy's waiting for the party to come and shoot them and the 15 minute day stops happening.

Ogre 1: Statick World? Dat where socks go?
Ogre 2: Me more interested where other wolfies go?
Ogre 1: Wat? It right there.
Ogre 2: No. Me used have ten wolfies. Now Larry and 3 wolfies gone. And Jon and Bob and eleven wolfies before that.
Ogre 1: Me cant help youse with that one. Me can't count past 3.
Ogre 2: Want play Throw Pointy Stick?
Ogre 1: Sure Me still have two eye.

 

[steeldragons]

I'll preface this with the fact that I didn't bother to read beyond this post...

I voted "nothing," because I don't think it's a problem. The DM already has absolute control over this phenomenon: he or she controls the number of encounters, the amount of down-time between encounters, the length of travel and availability of safe resting locations, time constraints, amount (or lack) of additional resources, etc.

By tweaking any of these variables, the DM can set the length of "the game workday" to anything he or she needs it to be to fit the pace and feel of the story.

Not broke, don't fix.

I voted "nothing" also. This isn't a problem unless the DM makes it/allows it be a problem.

Yes, you COULD have mechanics to discourage it or ADVICE to discourage it...but it all boils down to the DM. Will they take the advice? Will they USE the mechanics presented? Yes or no...it's down to the DM.

If the DM discourages it, the players will fall in line. Or...rather...not "fall in line" but learn from the experience!

Can I [the wizard] nova all of my spells (or any other class' "Dailies" or what have you) on a single encounter in the first hour of the adventure day...and look really cool doing it? Yes. Yes you can...and then, when other things happen during the day...you have NO RIGHT to whine or kvetch that you have "nothing to do." That's not the "system's" fault...that's the player's.

YOUR character. YOUR resources...YOUR call. You made a bad choice...perhaps...or perhaps not...but, if so, you know better for the next [in game] day. And if you do and convince everyone to "rest" again...the DM is under no compulsion to "hold" the goings-on of the game world.

Yes. I know I come at the game from a differnt place than many of you...but the fact of the matter is, particularly for 5e, it is [or should be] up to the DM where the "work day" ends. If they want to allow you a rest every hour of the day...that's on them...and will make a better or worse experience for you as a player.

The advice and/or mechanics should not or, I believe, can not dictate that for you.
--SD