So the fifteen-(or five) minute work day is the hot topic of discussion on the boards. I figured it was time for a poll. What do you think?
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What to do about the 15-minute work day?
- Thread starter MatthewJHanson
- Start date
Ahnehnois
First Post
If you have a resource system (spells/day, hp, etc.), then those resources should be expended regularly during the course of play. If and when that happens, characters who have expended their resources should be substantially disadvantaged. If these things are not the case there is no reason to track resources in the first place.
If you have a game where players like to retreat and rest regularly, you need to either design a time-sensitive scenario that attaches a cost to doing so, or simply accept that players like to rest their characters and work with it. Real fighters retreat when they're hurt and rest when they can and rarely engage in combat for extended periods of time; it's not a disaster if this happens in D&D. There is nothing difficult or counterintuitive about either of those options. Nor is there anything wrong with characters being at death's door or out of spells; it's actually quite heroic.
Personally, I'd cut back on resource management to the bare minimum (i.e. health), and change the /day concept to something more intuitive and malleable, such that this doesn't come up as much, but they don't seem to be going that way.
If you have a game where players like to retreat and rest regularly, you need to either design a time-sensitive scenario that attaches a cost to doing so, or simply accept that players like to rest their characters and work with it. Real fighters retreat when they're hurt and rest when they can and rarely engage in combat for extended periods of time; it's not a disaster if this happens in D&D. There is nothing difficult or counterintuitive about either of those options. Nor is there anything wrong with characters being at death's door or out of spells; it's actually quite heroic.
Personally, I'd cut back on resource management to the bare minimum (i.e. health), and change the /day concept to something more intuitive and malleable, such that this doesn't come up as much, but they don't seem to be going that way.
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
Other.
They should ensure the game is balanced regardless of whether you have a 15 minute workday or 24 hour workday (and also work the 12 hours of the night).
That doesn't mean that people can actually can go any distance or any number of encounters, just that the balance between the characters is not affected.
That may mean that every character has daily resources that are equally powerful and last equally long. (Those don't have to be all spell or spell-like abilities / daily powers - even hit point attrition can be part of that economy.
They should ensure the game is balanced regardless of whether you have a 15 minute workday or 24 hour workday (and also work the 12 hours of the night).
That doesn't mean that people can actually can go any distance or any number of encounters, just that the balance between the characters is not affected.
That may mean that every character has daily resources that are equally powerful and last equally long. (Those don't have to be all spell or spell-like abilities / daily powers - even hit point attrition can be part of that economy.
CleverNickName
Limit Break Dancing (He/They)
I voted "nothing," because I don't think it's a problem. The DM already has absolute control over this phenomenon: he or she controls the number of encounters, the amount of down-time between encounters, the length of travel and availability of safe resting locations, time constraints, amount (or lack) of additional resources, etc.
By tweaking any of these variables, the DM can set the length of "the game workday" to anything he or she needs it to be to fit the pace and feel of the story.
Not broke, don't fix.
By tweaking any of these variables, the DM can set the length of "the game workday" to anything he or she needs it to be to fit the pace and feel of the story.
Not broke, don't fix.
Any major single aspect of the game that has a large amount of fan hatred should have for those who dislikes it:
ADVICE to discourage it
Optional MECHANICS to remove or alter it
There should be at least a page on advenute pacing and at lest 2 modules (milestones, XP penalties, recharge magic) that remove or discourage 5 minute workdays.
ADVICE to discourage it
Optional MECHANICS to remove or alter it
There should be at least a page on advenute pacing and at lest 2 modules (milestones, XP penalties, recharge magic) that remove or discourage 5 minute workdays.
hamstertamer
First Post
Not a problem.
Never seen a group try to pull that nonsense with one exception; when I sat and played a 4th edition game with people at a gaming store. It was quite a different world then I was used to. We killed everything in a dining hall in this castle and just decided to go to sleep. No players posted guards or even bothered to close doors and bar entrances. I complained but I just got strange looks. We didn't need to worry though because nothing happened. No enemies came to see what happened in the dining hall or checked to see why so and so never returned and no guards were on patrol. All the "encounters" were patiently waiting in their areas so we could get some shut eye. Sadly we all died on the very next balanced encounter even though we were at maximum effectiveness ( I guess we beat the coded probabilities with bad rolls). That was the last time I tried playing the 4th at that gaming store.
If the players feel that the world their characters live in is a breathing living world then the so-called 15 minute adventuring day should not happen. There is nothing artificial about a world that reacts to your characters' actions. I've never played with the idea I could just take full rests wherever I want, whenever I want without some potential consequences. We wouldn't even leave our horses unguarded for fear of being stolen or eaten.
Never seen a group try to pull that nonsense with one exception; when I sat and played a 4th edition game with people at a gaming store. It was quite a different world then I was used to. We killed everything in a dining hall in this castle and just decided to go to sleep. No players posted guards or even bothered to close doors and bar entrances. I complained but I just got strange looks. We didn't need to worry though because nothing happened. No enemies came to see what happened in the dining hall or checked to see why so and so never returned and no guards were on patrol. All the "encounters" were patiently waiting in their areas so we could get some shut eye. Sadly we all died on the very next balanced encounter even though we were at maximum effectiveness ( I guess we beat the coded probabilities with bad rolls). That was the last time I tried playing the 4th at that gaming store.
If the players feel that the world their characters live in is a breathing living world then the so-called 15 minute adventuring day should not happen. There is nothing artificial about a world that reacts to your characters' actions. I've never played with the idea I could just take full rests wherever I want, whenever I want without some potential consequences. We wouldn't even leave our horses unguarded for fear of being stolen or eaten.
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
Don't remove the 15 minute adventuring day. If the party or the story demands it (after all, you can't always have more than one fight in a combat).
I mean, you can try to put up incentives and all, but in the end, it will either happen or it won't. What shouldn't be is that the 15 minute adventure day wrecks with balance. It shouldn't turn one group of characters into game-dominating power-houses and the other into bystanders that don't have much to contribute buy armor afterwards saying "I worked the 15 minute adventure day and I all I got was this lousy chain mail."
If one classes major power comes from daily resources, than all classes should have such resources. Maybe you don't need 4E martial dailies. Maybe you can get away with giving Fighters a ton of extra actions per day and more hit points or hit dice, I don't know.
I mean, you can try to put up incentives and all, but in the end, it will either happen or it won't. What shouldn't be is that the 15 minute adventure day wrecks with balance. It shouldn't turn one group of characters into game-dominating power-houses and the other into bystanders that don't have much to contribute buy armor afterwards saying "I worked the 15 minute adventure day and I all I got was this lousy chain mail."
If one classes major power comes from daily resources, than all classes should have such resources. Maybe you don't need 4E martial dailies. Maybe you can get away with giving Fighters a ton of extra actions per day and more hit points or hit dice, I don't know.
I agree, which is why I voted for "ADVICE"- some GMs simply don't get it.
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