Traps, tracks, locks, hazards, and disasters

[Minigiant]

I (maybe foolishly) think the Exploration pillar is the most agreed upon pillar. It is usually done smoothly and group resolve it with the least grumbles.

But are there any issues you have with this pillar? On how it is handled in the playtest? On traps? On environmental hazards? On tracking, natural disasters, secret doors, locked doors, magic alters, puzzles (BOOOOOOOO!!!!), athletics, or hunting?

ATM, all that upsets me is the Track in the playtest is just direction and not distance followed.

My current only wish is detailed "natural disasters". Dropping a tornado on the party is fun.

 

[GX.Sigma]

I have an issue with the way it's handled in the playtest. Mainly--it's not. The playtest doc lacks what I would call exploration rules. I think my previous post explains my opinion nicely, so I'll quote it:

Dungeon exploration:

• If a party enters the dungeon at 5:00 PM, is it dark yet when they leave the dungeon?
• If the Cleric casts a spell with a duration of 1 hour, how do you decide when that hour is up?
• If there's no way of keeping track of time, why would the party not search every room and wall for traps, treasure, and secret doors?

10 minute turns solve these problems: You can move a certain distance in 10 minutes (which I defined in my houserule as twice one's tactical speed; or ten times if they're not mapping), and some activities take up the whole of 10 minutes (searching for traps, disarming traps, searching for treasure, searching for secret doors, etc.). Every 20 minutes, there is a 1 in 6 chance of a wandering monster. Even if used solely on the DM's side as a means of eyeballing duration, this system solves the above problems.

Wilderness exploration: Without exploration rules, a cross-country journey is either

1. A fade to black
2. A single random encounter roll (or a series thereof)
3. Encounters the DM has prepared earlier

All of these have the same problems:

• Restricts player choice (i.e., is not a form of exploration)
• Makes the world seem small
• Makes travel time seem insignificant (and/or difficult to quantify)
• Requires either advance DM preparation or emergency DM adjudication
• Is not an engaging or interesting mode of gameplay

The hex crawl solves these problems: The world map is laid out on a hexagonal grid, making distances easy to count. It takes a certain amount of time for the party to move to a different hex, and there is often (if not always) a random encounter roll and/or a chance of getting lost, each modified by the type of terrain. Some hexes may have predefined things within them (castles, wizard towers, dungeon entrances, etc.), and some regions may have events occurring throughout them (a war between two types of monster which the party may be able to exploit, etc.). This system allows the players to make meaningful choices, and gives them an actual world to actually explore.

The game just doesn't make sense to me if there's no way of tracking time.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

I love a hex crawl, with defined times to cross them, probabilities of different encounters, danger levels, that sort of thing. Much of it can be pre-determined, or done so randomly if preferred. If you could generate an entire landscape, including potential random dungeons, with procedural methods that would be amazing, and create the possibility of a DM-less (and admittedly plot-limited) game.

 

[the Jester]

It's easy enough to track time via real world units IMHO; though I miss the old skool turn, it's strictly for nostalgia's sake.

That said, I'd love a good solid set of exploration rules and support. Stuff like:

-A thorough but succinct stat block for traps.
-A good list of example DCs for finding hidden objects.
-Random encounter rules, including typical monster frequency (I favor the 1e MM2 random encounter system).
-A list of natural and environmental hazards and their effects, e.g. landslides, desert heat, etc.
-Monsters in the MM that aren't just there for combat.
-A system for hexcrawling.
-Solid random dungeon generation system.
-A good random settlement/city generator and charts.
-Random npc charts allowing for quickly (in about six rolls) generating the outlines of an npc with a personality sketch.

 

[Zustiur]

I want what the Jester wants.

I'd also throw in, an entire book for traps hazards etc akin to the monster manual.

 

[howandwhy99]

Frankly, I really don't think they have an exploration game system in D&D Next. What they do have is bits and pieces resembling what was in 3rd or 4th. I hope that the adventure design mechanics will include a full work up on this, but we'll see.

There are any number of issues I have with the little they do include, but I don't want to be discouraging. I'd rather see the pillar be supported than dropped altogether.

EDIT:
For strictly constructive purposes, here's an overview:

• Saving Throws don't match up currently to the environment
• The Conditions list is woefully small and is opaque for DMs to change it or create their own
• Carrying Capacity is too high and too low at the ends and the average is too high
• Small size (and other non-medium/human size) should be different again
• Initiative is still way too cumbersome
• Hit Points generation is too fiddly
• Number of languages possible per character are too few
• Exploration could really use a better measured unit of time for stat purposes (if even just 1 minute)
• Jumping is getting better, but still doesn't incorporate strength, speed (not move), and height or weight.
• Surprise Determination could use something other than DM fiat
• Search rules (for time taken) would be nice
• Half price selling is a bad PC-only rule and simply perpetuates the idea of exploration as not a resource game

 

[Manbearcat]

As nothing but a full time DM for the entirety of my gaming career, this is my favorite pillar. Predictably, given its early, bare-bones iteration, the playtest material that we were given does not give us much to induce tension and control pacing through leveraging mechanical device.

Regarding the Exploration pillar, as much as anything in 5e, I would like:

- to be able to induce tension and control pacing through a set of very clear, unified mechanical sub-systems that represent the various challenges/adversity within this pillar.
- for the unified mechanical sub-systems to be intuitive and user-friendly (little book-keeping/accounting), but impactful.
- for the sub-systems to not be circumventable completely by way of spells (the way HP mechanics have been historically circumvented via some spells). As I have said before in many-a-threads, this is my (and most/all others) primary source of angst toward teleportation and other Exploration Pillar circumventing spells.
- a "page 42" list of damage expressions/status effects/tracks that I can use to create my own non-sentient, exploration pillar threats. To this same end, good, clear DM advice and examples are of necessity.
- a strong set of clear, thoroughly navigated (for players newer to this style of play) narrative mechanics for scene-framing (Skill Challenges or a derivative thereof) climactic events within the Exploration Pillar. Again, several examples within the DMG (and perhaps an accompanying set of video tools) are of necessity.
- considerable DM advice on how to leverage these mechanical sub-systems to their best effect (toward the end of creating tension, horror, anxiety, excitement within players).
- considerable DM advice on how to build genre-relevant adversity/trials within the exploration pillar.
- my PCs to have their own shticks whereby they can each meaningfully contribute to the exploration pillar and never be excluded by the overwhelming repertoire of another class (be they fighter, wizard, rogue, what-have-you).

 

[1of3]

But are there any issues you have with this pillar?

Yes. I find it plain boring as a GM. If there are monsters, I can play monsters. If there are NPC, I can play NPCs.

If there is a trap, the player rolls a saving throw and it's over. If there is a lack of food, the players will deduct their rations. If there is treasure to be hauled, the players will do some logistics. Those things aren't even interesting to watch.

The only exploration thing I remotely care about as a GM is inventing and handing out treasures.

 

[Stormonu]

My current only wish is detailed "natural disasters". Dropping a tornado on the party is fun.

This boggles me. Unless your characters are relatives of Pecos Bill, what can they do besides hide in the cellar and hope the druid's wolf doesn't get carried off from Kansas?

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The problems I have with puzzles. I don't want to give characters straight out answers with something like an intelligence roll, but I want players who have smart characters to have hints, extra guesses or whatnot to reflect their supposed greater intellect (by the way, same goes pretty much for social encounters with wallflower players playing rockstar bards). Some good guidelines and perhaps a few neat mechanics might be nice - say like a number of clues/guesses/hints equal to you Int mod when solving a puzzle or the like.

I don't know about 4E, but in 3E it seems like characters can hold their breath ridiculously long times. I'd like to see that shortened and then characters start taking hp damage - not drop instantly to 0 hp in one fell swoop.

I want traps to swing back to 3E and prior. I don't like 4E's heat-seeking arrow dart traps or "let's break the damn thing instead of letting the rogue disarm it" approach - as if it were some affixed monster. Sure, some traps can be broken, but I'd rather see the general approach to be either find a way to circumnavigate it or disarm it. More "chuck the skull in the gears of the descending ceiling and stop it long enough to pry the door open" than "let's rip the wall out and yank out the gears".

 

[Minigiant]

This boggles me. Unless your characters are relatives of Pecos Bill, what can they do besides hide in the cellar and hope the druid's wolf doesn't get carried off from Kansas?

Chase them with it. Next time they wont simple fly to Mordor.