We need to stop short changing thieves on equipment

[tlantl]

all of these things have been in the game from day one. Your thieves tools are assumed to have all of the small tools you need to open locks set and remove traps.

A large list of these tools are listed in supplements, most commonly Dragon magazine, unearthed arcana and the wilderness and dungeoneers survival guides.

I have no idea where these items went in latter games but having them available has never been a problem, even in 3e.

I would agree that a long and comprehensive list of items of all kinds be listed in the player's handbook where we can easily access them. Maybe a more complete list of the items found in a thieves kit would help, though. The 1e player's handbook was very lacking in information about these tools, and just about everything else.

 

[ferratus]

I may be misremembering, but isn't bag of marbles in the current playtest equipment list?

If I didn't see them, and you can't remember seeing them, then obviously they need to be in their own table with the other thief equipment.

I seem to remember passing them up for some caltrops though.

See, that's why you need advice and mechanics on how to use these things. Marbles and caltrops are meant to be used together. Caltrops in the feet hurt, but caltrops in the face really hurt.

 

[ferratus]

Rogues are not the only ones short changed.

Rangers dont have their bolas, nets, and list of 35 herbs and poisons.

Yep, camoflauge netting, weather appropriate gear, skis or snowshoes, dog sleds, scent lures, animal calls, etc. All pretty important for the explorer's class.

All the skill based classes are hosed when it comes to mundane equipment, and it is time that changed.

 

[Stormonu]

What I'd like to see is gear that provides something other than a +1 or +2 bonus to some skill check. Something that makes you go "yeah, that's worth going out and buying!" (Conversely, I don't want it to feel like you have to have it, but just that having it is really cool).

Masterwork lockpicks that grant Advantage to Open Lock checks, perhaps. Marked cards that give you the Swindle feat. The hollow leg that's a whiskey flask. The charlatan's charm (really cheap - good luck for just 1 gp!). Slipping mickeys into someone's drinks... etc., etc., etc.

 

[ComradeGnull]

Anyone else have Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue for 2e? The thief gear was a little heavy on stuff that bumped your thieving skills, but there was tons and tons of mundane gear that you could apply to different situations. There was a Rogue section, a Ranger section, also information on equipping a forge or wizard's laboratory. One of my favorite supplements from that era. I even created a NPC wizard named Tacky Armondo who fought with an enchanted lawn rake.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

The question is, can anyone use this equipment or just rogues? I see no reason not to restrict it in the same way you restrict armor/weapon usage, preferably through a background.

I think a gadgeteer would then make a great bonus background for rogues. Smoke bombs would fill a square, last 1 round and provide suitable opportunity to hide and then sneak attack. Flashbangs or Thunderstones could be used as a reaction against a spellcaster. Caltrops would create difficult terrain (or take damage). Marbles would prompt a save to avoid falling over. There are lots of good ideas!

 

[triqui]

How does he get past locked doors when he can't pick them without chisels, files or hacksaws?

They arethere, under "thieving tools". Im not sure we need to specify them any more than we need to explicitly mention bandages, poultices, salves, scalpels and ointments in a healer's kit

 

[ferratus]

A few people have said that chisels and files are amongst the thieves tools. I think if they are, they do the rules differently. If you have chisels, a hacksaw and a crowbar among your thieves tools, then that locked door should always open (unless you are trying to open a safe or vault). Open locks should instead apply to whether you can do it quietly, not whether you can get the door open with your thieves' tools.

Also, perhaps we should divide thieves tools back up into lockpicks and other assorted items. When I was playing 4e, they brought in the "adventurer's kit" which had the common items that every adventurerer took (rope, bedrolls, sunrods, etc.). The thing was, since it was just called "adventuerer's kit" on their sheets, my characters forgot what they contained (except rope, nobody ever forgot rope). They also stopped searching through the equipment list for the interesting items 4e did release through DDI. So I banned adventurer's kits and the electronic tool's automatic assigning of equipment, and the mundane dungeon troubleshooting items returned to the game.

So if all the tools (listening cones, hacksaws, wax pads for taking key impressions, files, vials of acid etc. etc.) are all bundled under thieves' tools, perhaps they shouldn't be.

 

[cmbarona]

Considering the game has been around so long, they already have a plethora of ideas for mundane equipment like this. I think it would be fantastic to add this right in the PHB, and to add a rogue scheme (as mentioned earlier, a "gadgeteer" or the like) that gets bonuses with such equipment. Since schemes double as a background, that part of it can handle the ability to create such items, making them non-rogue-exclusive. Some rogues are just better at using these tools than others (for example, smokebomb+hide in a single action).

Things I've heard mentioned are camouflage netting, the aforementioned smokebomb, flashbangs, thunderstones, marbles, and caltrops. What else has been published over the years, and how could you see it interacting with a Rogue scheme?

 

[triqui]

A few people have said that chisels and files are amongst the thieves tools. I think if they are, they do the rules differently. If you have chisels, a hacksaw and a crowbar among your thieves tools, then that locked door should always open (unless you are trying to open a safe or vault). Open locks should instead apply to whether you can do it quietly, not whether you can get the door open with your thieves' tools.

If cutting the lock and breaking it without silence is an option, then a warhammer or battleaxe, and the hardness rule for attacking objects can do the trick too.