Order of the Bow, Close Combat, and AOO's, oh my!

[Bastoche]

PHB p.124, "Shooting or Throwing into Melee". The Precise Shot feat negates the -4 penalty.

Reread the previous post. Angalagon talks about a -4 penality to AC. There is no such things. It's a -4 penality to hit.

And like you said that penality is negated by precise shot which is a prerequisited to be an OBI.

The only penality for shooting in melee is to provoke a AoO which is negated by the close combat ability.

Although the sunder argument still hold.

And there's no way the hell an OBI (or any archer for that matter) that will be able to threaten an area with a bow. And it seems to me (although I may be wrong) that the OBI can only "sneak attack" (I don't remember the name of the ability) when the opponement is denied dexterity, not when he is flanked.

Heck, OBI is a fighter type character. Giving him rogue ability for free is takin the highway to unbalance land !

 

[Ysgarran]

I have a OotB Initiate in my campaign who wants to take a feat that will let him take an AoO with his bow when some tries move within a 5' foot area of him. He was really annoyed when some bad guys ran buy him the other day and he couldn't do anything about it...

I've let him take the feat on a trial basis, revocable within one level by either the DM or the player. I plan to sunder his bow a few times to see if that changes his mind about what feat he should be taking.

Just the last session he was reading about reach weapons and asked to change the feat so he could threaten a 10' foot range with his bow.

So, do people think such a feat balanced?

What about a feat that would allow bow/crossbow/etc users to flank oppenents so they would get the sneak attack and flanking bonuses within 30' feat. I would say no to this one due to the way ammunition and the launcher stack but that particular argument doesn't hold for thrown weapons.

 

[hong]

I have a OotB Initiate in my campaign who wants to take a feat that will let him take an AoO with his bow when some tries move within a 5' foot area of him. He was really annoyed when some bad guys ran buy him the other day and he couldn't do anything about it...

I've let him take the feat on a trial basis, revocable within one level by either the DM or the player. I plan to sunder his bow a few times to see if that changes his mind about what feat he should be taking.

Just the last session he was reading about reach weapons and asked to change the feat so he could threaten a 10' foot range with his bow.

No way. An archer is a ranged weapon specialist. He shouldn't even be in the front line; if he is, he's either being silly, or the tanks in the party aren't doing their job. If he's really paranoid about being yanked into melee, suggest the Quick-Draw feat to him. Very useful for change weapons at a pinch.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Thanks for the help, everyone!

Since I shot down the AOO idea, he now wants to mount a dagger on the end of his bow to make it usable as a melee weapon. I have told him that it couldn't be done by just a weaponsmith, that someone with the craft arms and armor feat could possibly do it. Alternately, I thought of creating a weapon made that way. How's this:

Blade-bow
Size: large
Cost: 150 gp
Damage: 1d8/1d4
Critical: 20x3/19-20x2


The blade-bow is simply a longbow or shortbow with a dagger affixed to one end. This off-balances a bow, so it takes a master weaponsmith to craft one. The DC to craft a blade-bow is 20 - 25 for a masterwork blade-bow.

Think that'll work?

Perhaps it should be an exotic weapon?

 

[Xahn'Tyr]

Perhaps? Ha! Yea, I think maybe it should be an exotic weapon. Honestly though, I do not think that is a viable route to take. If you could do that, why not just use your bow like a club and claim AoOs? I think the problem is that you cannot be doing ranged attacks and still be claiming to threaten an area. The two just don't mix.

 

[Axiomatic Unicorn]

That does not sound any more implausable to be than most of the "official" double weapons. Certainly an exotic.

 

[Zhure]

Spiked armor + bow = threatens an area.

I wonder if one could use Quickdraw and Rapid Shot to get extra attacks... (stick with me on this).

Since you can mix melee and ranged attacks with your iterative attacks, and Rapid Shot gives an extra ranged attack by taking -2 on all attacks and a full attack action.

BAB +6/+1,
with RS = +4/+4/-1
Stab, throw knife, stab

Full normal number of melee attacks, +1 missile attack. That against the rules for any reason?

Greg

 

[Bastoche]

Spiked armor + bow = threatens an area.

I wonder if one could use Quickdraw and Rapid Shot to get extra attacks... (stick with me on this).

Since you can mix melee and ranged attacks with your iterative attacks, and Rapid Shot gives an extra ranged attack by taking -2 on all attacks and a full attack action.

BAB +6/+1,
with RS = +4/+4/-1
Stab, throw knife, stab

Full normal number of melee attacks, +1 missile attack. That against the rules for any reason?

Greg

I do not think you can switch from range to melee within a single round. This issue has been debated as hell. I personnally consider that when you choose to do a melee full attack action, you are set on melee until your next turn. Same for ranged weapons.

Like I said, this issue has been beaten to death and I don't think the rules support that kind of possibilities (switch from melee to ranged with tha same round). And I also think that giving this possiblity to a ranged fighter is a very very bad idea from a balance point of view. If the party doesn't have at least one front tank warrior, there shouldn't be a ultra specialized ranged fighter. Archers are good when given the proprer role. And that role isn't being in melee.

I think that a bow is too fragile to be used as a "spear" with a dagger. And I also think that allowing an archer to threaten an area when using ranged attacks is a bad idea.

If the rules could somehow allow to bypass the ranged attack disadvantages, why would they create them ?

Range attack allows huge advantages over melee attacks. It's normal that they also get huge disadvantages. And bending the rules to reduce them, or worst, nullify them is a sure way toward unbalance.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

"The Quintessential Fighter" has EXACTLY the weapon I just described except the crit range is 20 for both bow and dagger and it has a range of only 60 feet. Great minds think alike! It is a martial weapon, however. I think maybe I'll let him get one of those and let him have the standard long bow range if he spends an exotic weapon feat on it.

 

[Bellshear]

Thanks for the help, everyone!

Since I shot down the AOO idea, he now wants to mount a dagger on the end of his bow to make it usable as a melee weapon. I have told him that it couldn't be done by just a weaponsmith, that someone with the craft arms and armor feat could possibly do it. Alternately, I thought of creating a weapon made that way. How's this:

Blade-bow
Size: large
Cost: 150 gp
Damage: 1d8/1d4
Critical: 20x3/19-20x2


The blade-bow is simply a longbow or shortbow with a dagger affixed to one end. This off-balances a bow, so it takes a master weaponsmith to craft one. The DC to craft a blade-bow is 20 - 25 for a masterwork blade-bow.

Think that'll work?

Perhaps it should be an exotic weapon?

I am also a Archer, was thinking of fastening a blade to some bracers and using and using it as an an off handed weapon with my bow. I have a flexible DM, basically we play like this: If you could do it in real life you can do in game.

I think you strapping a dagger to a bow would work, but being that the bow is so flexible it would have to be REALLY low damage.