Rules Reprints And Setting Proliferation

[prosfilaes]

What genres WotC didn't cover in 3E, other OGL publishers pretty much filled in. However, campaign worlds I'd like to see done as official D&D worlds might include:

A Pirate Campaign: The world is a bunch of islands and the primary source of trade is via ship. Lost cities of gold, a tyrannical seaborne empire and vicious natives on monster-infested isles beckon adventurers with promises of profit and death.

I think there's always the question of whether to create new settings or add onto old. Paizo just finished their pirate Adventure Path and fleshed out part of Golarion for that. That brings support and familiarity; mentioning to the players that they've met a cleric of Desna from Cheliax means something to them, and you've got a list of Desna's holy days at hand. It also probably sells better; there's a lot of people out there who buy every book for Forgotten Realms or the Pathfinder Campaign Setting who would think twice about a new setting.

 

[Yora]

Or, to put another way: Do we have an official sky islands setting? Whether we do or not, what else are we missing?

A "First Age of Mortal Races" setting. Humanoids developing agriculture and bronze and starting to make the world theirs.

Though it would suck if WotC releases such a thing, then nobody would care about mine, even as a free pdf release. ^^

 

[Desdichado]

There's not a single setting in the list below that we hadn't seen before 3E, except for Spycraft, which is not a D&D setting, and any new settings with D20 Modern which is also not D&D. The statement you were replying to asked for new settings.

Scarred Lands, Bluffside, Freeport, Iron Kingdoms, Midnight, Golarion, Diamond Throne, Warlords of the Accordlands, Sovereign Stone, then.

Off the top of my head. Just because his examples weren't the best doesn't mean that his point wasn't valid.

I don't know how the numbers breakdown, but I don't find D20-based systems to really count; there's been D&D-esque material since day 1, and we aren't going to count RIFTS as a AD&D 2 setting.

d20 settings are actual D&D settings that use the D&D rules. Comparing them to RIFTS is a false analogy.

There's also something important different about 2E settings. There were a handful of quickies, but most of them were well-supported. There were 21 RPG books (counting box sets as 1) printed for Spelljammer. That's quite a bit of material for the DM to work with, not even mentioning Dragon/Dungeon/Polyhedron or non-Spelljammer labeled material. The number of products for most of the above fit on one hand. Off the top of my head, D&D 3 had Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, Eberron, Scarred Lands, Kalamar and Golarion (towards the end) as full fledged settings, with support. There's a big difference between them and settings that leave most everything for the DM to fill in.

There are some settings that have a fair bit of published material. But in general, you're right. If you really like lots of setting splatbooks, the 3pp d20 settings don't really deliver as much. I'd say that for a lot of folks, that was a positive rather than a negative.

 

[Nikosandros]

I know there were plans to release a 4E Nentir Vale Gazetteer and some point (as part of the Essentials line?), but I haven't seen it and I'm not sure if it got canned along the way.

That product just quietly disappeared from WotC catalog and was never produced.

 

[Yora]

Probably was scrapped along with most other 4th Edition books on the schedule when they decided to move on to 5th.

 

[prosfilaes]

d20 settings are actual D&D settings that use the D&D rules. Comparing them to RIFTS is a false analogy.

Water Bob apparently understood, but maybe I wasn't clear enough. D20 Modern, Spycraft, Traveller T20, Conan (IIRC), etc. did not use D&D rules. They used some variant thereof, like had been for time-immortal, of which RIFTS is just one example.

 

[Water Bob]

Water Bob apparently understood, but maybe I wasn't clear enough. D20 Modern, Spycraft, Traveller T20, Conan (IIRC), etc. did not use D&D rules. They used some variant thereof, like had been for time-immortal, of which RIFTS is just one example.

I guess is that the d20 system is D&D to me, even if it's a tweaked system, like d20 Star Wars. They are close enough for government work.

But, I see what you are saying now more clearly. You mean the D&D rules EXACTLY. With zero changes.

Curious. How closely do we look at a game and say it's not the same. Dragonlance uses steel for its base money and orcs don't appear in the world. Does it still qualify for D&D? I never played Spelljammer or Birthright. Were there no changes to the rules at all? Heck, was there even a d20 version of Birthright?

If a game uses different character classes, is it still D&D? Al-Qadim? Kara-Tur?

Where is the line drawn?

 

[Desdichado]

Water Bob apparently understood, but maybe I wasn't clear enough. D20 Modern, Spycraft, Traveller T20, Conan (IIRC), etc. did not use D&D rules. They used some variant thereof, like had been for time-immortal, of which RIFTS is just one example.

I don't necessarily disagree. Those weren't the best examples. I gave you some better ones off the top of my head.

Many of those examples weren't even settings anyway (d20 Modern?)

Then again, it's also a bit disingenious to suggest that the rules aren't basically the same as 3e D&D--mostly just with unique classes. Other than that, the rules differences are minor enough to that I'd have expected no less than that from table to table anyway.

I guess is that the d20 system is D&D to me, even if it's a tweaked system, like d20 Star Wars. They are close enough for government work.

But, I see what you are saying now more clearly. You mean the D&D rules EXACTLY. With zero changes.

Curious. How closely do we look at a game and say it's not the same. Dragonlance uses steel for its base money and orcs don't appear in the world. Does it still qualify for D&D? I never played Spelljammer or Birthright. Were there no changes to the rules at all? Heck, was there even a d20 version of Birthright?

If a game uses different character classes, is it still D&D? Al-Qadim? Kara-Tur?

Where is the line drawn?

Maybe Water Bob didn't get it after all. He makes a good point; the line is somewhat arbitrary. I'd be maybe more inclined to say that Conan d20 is a different game than D&D, but it's still obviously much, much closer to D&D than RIFTS is. I think maybe the point you were tyring to make is a bit obscured by the fact that your own examples weren't very good ones either.

I tend to err on the side of inclusivity on this particular question. If I can take elements of one game and intermingle them with another without any tweaking (D&D monsters in a Conan or d20 Modern game, for example), then I tend to see them more like houserule variants on the same system rather than completely different games.

 

[Water Bob]

I tend to err on the side of inclusivity on this particular question. If I can take elements of one game and intermingle them with another without any tweaking (D&D monsters in a Conan or d20 Modern game, for example), then I tend to see them more like houserule variants on the same system rather than completely different games.

Me too.

Just for clarification, though, Monsters between Conan and D&D aren't plug-n-play. D&D AC needs to be converted to a Conan Dodge AC (and sometimes a Parry AC) and a Damage Resistance rating. Typically, Conan monsters and characters have lower ACs but include DR ratings for armor (can be natural) that soaks up damage.

Then, weapons, even natural ones, have Armor Piercing ratings, used to punch through a target's armor. In addition, weapons typically do a step or two more damage in the Conan game. So some work does have to be done when converting monsters and equipment.

But, you can take things like the DC to break down a door, or the DC to open a lock, and take them straight from D&D into Conan. The two games are built from the same base.

But, that's all really beside the point, isn't it!