D&D 5E Poll: What is a Level 1 PC?

[delericho]

Luke shouldn't be 1st-level leaving the farm. He was already a trained rebel who was rewriting the setting in his first movie.

Only if the Rebel Alliance training consisted of advanced moisture farming techniques. In the first third of the movie, Luke manages to get beaten up twice, he gets outwitted by a hamstrung droid, and he gets sold a load of bantha poodoo by Ben Kenobi. He doesn't exactly cover himself with glory.

What he does have in his favour, though, is a great deal of potential and the ability to learn very quickly.

But, rather more importantly: in a level-based Star Wars game, one really shouldn't have to play through months of the campaign before reaching the point at which Luke starts off.

Frankly, Luke, Han, and Leia as they appear at the start of SW, and Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Amidala as they appear at the start of TPM should all be suitable starter characters in a Star Wars RPG campaign. Otherwise, the game really isn't doing its job.

 

[Neonchameleon]

My preference is that first level be Luke Skywalker just as he leaves the farm.

Someone with the skills to hit womp rats with a blaster? Someone with the potential for the Force? A notoriously skilled and reckless flyer, able to just hop into a fighter craft and shoot down the Empire's elite?

Yeah. Some everyman.

Samwise as he takes his "one more step".

Sam, I'll grant.

D'Argtanian when he chooses to get involved in the fight against the Cardinal's men.

A notorious bravo already able to take on professional soldiers? The Cardinal's Guard were not everymen. They were professional soldiers and could cut through average commoners like a hot knife through butter. Yes, D'Artagnian wasn't one of the elite musketeers yet. But he was hardly an everyman.

Mechanically speaking, I think my preference is for first level characters to be a cut above the average, but only just

Well that rules both Luke and D'Artagnian out...

That may be to do with my entry to the game - it's a lot closer to the position in BECMI D&D and AD&D 2nd Edition.[/auote]

I don't know BECMI - but in 2e as in 1e the L1 fighter was explicitely a veteran who gained weapon specialisation, and the wizard had about five years worth of magical training behind him (look at the ages). The only class I can think of where the hero could be a genuine fresh off the farm everyman was the thief, and then only because they had near-supernatural abilities subtly stripped from them over the course of multiple editions.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Only if the Rebel Alliance training consisted of advanced moisture farming techniques. In the first third of the movie, Luke manages to get beaten up twice, he gets outwitted by a hamstrung droid, and he gets sold a load of bantha poodoo by Ben Kenobi. He doesn't exactly cover himself with glory.

Luke's wisdom is his dump stat. His high stats are Dex, Con, and possibly Cha. Dex really helps with ranged combat, lightsabres (who needs strength?) and piloting but isn't that useful in a fistfight. But I don't recall anything approaching a training montage from the Rebel Alliance. Also Ben Kenobi is seriously high level.

But, rather more importantly: in a level-based Star Wars game, one really shouldn't have to play through months of the campaign before reaching the point at which Luke starts off.

Frankly, Luke, Han, and Leia as they appear at the start of SW, and Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Amidala as they appear at the start of TPM should all be suitable starter characters in a Star Wars RPG campaign. Otherwise, the game really isn't doing its job.

I'm not sure I can call Obi-Wan in Episode Jar-Jar first level. But the rest, yes. And there are ways of handling different levels.

 

[Falling Icicle]

I voted for "already a hero and extraordinary."

What is a "hero"? In this context, I would say that it's someone who has enough courage, drive, ambition or whatever other motivation to get off his butt and do something when most people would cower, flee, hide or not know what to do. It takes a special kind of person to go into a dungeon and risk his or her life. Even 1st level characters do that. Of course, not all characters are virtuous, but even the most selfish adventurer is willing to risk his life attempting things that most people never would.

As for the "extraordinary" part, every player character fits in that category, even at 1st level. The budding wizard may only be able to use minor spells, but even that separates him forever from the common man. A cleric can call upon divine power to instantly heal the wounded or smite his enemies. Normal people just can't do those things. Even a first level fighter is probably the greatest warrior in the entire town, more than a match for mere guards or militia.

1st level characters may have only begun to realize their potential, but they're still a cut above the common person.

 

[delericho]

Someone with the skills to hit womp rats with a blaster? Someone with the potential for the Force? A notoriously skilled and reckless flyer, able to just hop into a fighter craft and shoot down the Empire's elite?

Yeah. Some everyman.

Womp rats are about 2 metres in size. Which makes them oddly similar to that staple of 1st level games, the Dire Rat. Potential with the Force is just the Force Sensitivity feat. And he doesn't just hop into that fighter right after leaving the farm - that's several levels later.

But I don't recall anything approaching a training montage from the Rebel Alliance.

In the realistic version of Star Wars, any kid who comes straight off the farm and gets put into the cockpit of a fighter winds up dead. No amount of flying around in speeders, or even being "the best push pilot in the Outer Rim" is going to help with that - prior to meeting Han Solo, Luke had never left the atmosphere; at best it's like going from being a race car driver to piloting a stealth bomber.

Either Luke received a crash course from the Alliance, or the Star Wars universe follows the d20 convention that PCs can increase their ranks in any skills at level-up, even if they haven't used them.

A notorious bravo already able to take on professional soldiers? The Cardinal's Guard were not everymen. They were professional soldiers and could cut through average commoners like a hot knife through butter. Yes, D'Artagnian wasn't one of the elite musketeers yet. But he was hardly an everyman.

Again, per the book*, D'Argtanian had had some training, but he was an arrogant young fool who was nowhere near as skilled as he thought. Prior to the aborted duel with the musketeers, he'd managed to insult practically everyone he'd met, been beaten up, and been robbed. And, had it not been for the intervention of the guards, he would have been dead imminently.

Almost exactly like Luke, in fact.

And per the 3e Monster Manual, a 1st level Warrior is a CR 1/2 challenge - prime fodder for a 1st level encounter.

* Film versions of "The Three Musketeers" obviously vary significantly.

I'm not sure I can call Obi-Wan in Episode Jar-Jar first level. But the rest, yes. And there are ways of handling different levels.

I'd like to draw one subtle (but important) distinction here - I don't think that those should all be first level, necessarily, merely that they should all be suitable starter characters. (And, yes, I believe that the same should also be true of D'Argtanian, any of the four Hobbits, or for that matter Bilbo and most of the twelve Dwarves.)

Of course, in a level-based game, those two concepts are almost certain to mean the same thing (since you're expected to start at 1st level). But if the game were potentially to allow for different starting points, or of course if it were not level-based to start with, then that opens the discussion somewhat.

 

[delericho]

It takes a special kind of person to go into a dungeon and risk his or her life.

Young, hungry, and with no appreciable job prospects?

 

[Jester David]

I went with E - it's variable depending on the type of campaign I'm running.

I deliberately avoided "E" or having 5 options so people would have to chose closer to Everyman or closer to Hero. I wanted to see which way people leaned.

 

[Jester David]

The first level PC has never been an everyman in any edition of D&D there has ever been. For one thing the first level wizard has always been able to command arcane forces and no everyman can do that.

So I reject your assertion that there was an actual change. The minion rules are just a recognition of the reality that there has been in every edition that the adventurers are skilled adventurers and are a huge cut above the average joe at what they do even at first level.

1st level PCs have never been Everyman as a default no, but they were closer. Better gear was a big difference, and a few hp or a spell. And there wasn't the assumption the PCs were heroes, which is what 4e has. The designers wanted players to start as recognized heroes. They wanted a game of heroic action adventure.
From the start, one of their design goals was stretching the "Sweet Spot" across all levels of play. They mentioned this to much "Sweet Spot" has become an over-used term in the community. So by this design change alone, first level PCs in 4e were designed to feel like 3rd level PCs in earlier editions.

This is reflected in the adventures. At first level you're not guarding caravans or exterminating giant rats in a basement. You're wiping out tribes of kobolds and saving the town. You can survive dangerous fights, have four or five battles in rapid succession, and finish the day fighting a large dragon.
Keep on the Shadowfell begins with the PCs fighting eight kobolds. Eight! All ambushing you from behind cover. Two encounters later they're fighting a dozen kobolds followed by a two-wave fight with fifteen of the buggers. One day of adventuring, and they've killed 30 kobolds and saved Winterfell.

Is this bad? Nope. Just depends on your game. Any campaign or story that started at a higher level in earlier editions would work fine in 4e. Dragonlance as an example, 1st instead of 7th.
I'm more curious about where the majority actually lies.

 

[B.T.]

Levels are the dial for this system.

 

[Teataine]

Level 1 PCs are better than the average person. That much should be clear.

The average person doesn't stand up to monsters, can't cast spells, and doesn't own swords and armour. The PCs are probably stronger, tougher, quicker, smarter, wiser and more charismatic that the regular person in the street.

But if a level 1 PC is a hero...then what the hell is a level 5PC? What is a level 10 PC? A superhero? A god?

I mean, come on. A hero needs to prove himself.

If we start the game at a higher level, sure, it's a different kind of game. But at level 1 you don't get your hero badge handed to you on a silver platter. At least not as far as I'm concerned.