D&D 5E Poll: What is a Level 1 PC?

[Obryn]

Ultimately I guess I just don't see how giving those who want a fully fleshed out NPC construction system that is based on the same creation rules asC's (whatever they are in the new edition) in any way hinders those who are going to choose to make it up anyway? Ignore it and make it up if you want... and for those who do want to use it, it's there.

I wouldn't object to it being a module, of course.

I just think it's completely unnecessary (and even downright harmful to world-building) baggage for the core game.

-O

 

[Imaro]

I wouldn't object to it being a module, of course.

I just think it's completely unnecessary (and even downright harmful to world-building) baggage for the core game.

-O

I think what inspires or works for different people is so subjective that I find it hard to claim PC's and NPC's built on the same chasis is "harmful" to world-building. YMMV of course.

 

[Obryn]

I think what inspires or works for different people is so subjective that I find it hard to claim PC's and NPC's built on the same chasis is "harmful" to world-building. YMMV of course.

I already posted my own objections upthread. I think I've probably repeated myself like three times by now. So a quick summary: (1) Class/Level requries increases in combat skill to get more effective at your job and carries a lot of baggage with it, (2) Class/Level can't adequately handle apprentices and the like if your average Commoner starts at 1st level, (3) Skills work perfectly fine as a detached system for NPCs, (4) It's a lot of work with a high barrier for entry that could be functionally replicated by a simple table, (5) We don't expect skilled physicicsts to be able to take a few hits from a dagger and survive, and (6) It's nonsense that a PC would get better at baking after a few weeks killing goblins, but an NPC won't get better at baking through practice. Whew.

But like I said - make it a module, and it's good. I think it's a waste of many pages for a part of the core system though, prizing consistency over sensibility.

-O

 

[pemerton]

Who said anything about stripping all mandatory progression out of your classes. Again, ability increases, feats, defenses, etc

But these don't serve your stated purpose of determining challenge - all they do is set an upper limit on it.

Furthemore, why should all NPCs get feats at the same rate as NPCs? I mean, what is the ingame logic for that? And why do they all get better at dodging and swallowing poison?

 

[Ryujin]

Isn't this campaign specific? In some people's D&D worlds... "heroes" started as 'regular people'... and some NPC's can be heroes and/or villains... so I think your distinction is only considering a particular style of play.

You're certainly right about that but given that PCs are at least somewhat 'special' in the vast majority of campaigns, my statement is more applicable than not by a good measure.

 

[Imaro]

Furthemore, why should all NPCs get feats at the same rate as NPCs? I mean, what is the ingame logic for that? And why do they all get better at dodging and swallowing poison?

Who said anything about ingame logic? How is it any more or less logical than make it up? Maybe I'm not understanding your question here...

 

[Imaro]

I already posted my own objections upthread. I think I've probably repeated myself like three times by now. So a quick summary: (1) Class/Level requries increases in combat skill to get more effective at your job and carries a lot of baggage with it, (2) Class/Level can't adequately handle apprentices and the like if your average Commoner starts at 1st level, (3) Skills work perfectly fine as a detached system for NPCs, (4) It's a lot of work with a high barrier for entry that could be functionally replicated by a simple table, (5) We don't expect skilled physicicsts to be able to take a few hits from a dagger and survive, and (6) It's nonsense that a PC would get better at baking after a few weeks killing goblins, but an NPC won't get better at baking through practice. Whew.

But like I said - make it a module, and it's good. I think it's a waste of many pages for a part of the core system though, prizing consistency over sensibility.

-O

1. We've already proven that combat ability can be tailored to the specific NPC class.

2. There's zero level classes in certain edittions of D&D and 1st level NPC classes do not have to be comparable to a first level PC.

3. Unless you want a system to create a complete NPC as opposed to giving you the value for a singular skill...

4. It's only alot of work if classes are made to be complex and/or fiddly.

5. We don't expect humans to fight winged behemoths with fire breath the size of t-rex's and survive either... it's (heroic)fantasy.

6. XP can be awarded by the DM for things other than killing monsters since at least 3.0... and if I remeber correctly, even some editions before that.

 

[Imaro]

You're certainly right about that but given that PCs are at least somewhat 'special' in the vast majority of campaigns, my statement is more applicable than not by a good measure.

I'm not exactly sure what "special" means in this context... are you saying the PC's are the only band of roving killers for hire /tomb raiders/adventurers in your games?

EDIT: I mean let's look at the atypical D&D world... the Forgotten Realms... "heroes" are a dime a dozen in these lands. One band of adventurers isn't particularly special.

 

[S'mon]

say your baker is challenged to a arm wrestling contest by one of the PC's... how would you determine the baker's strength in a fair manner...since all you gave him was a skill in bakery?

Roll 3d6?

 

[Ryujin]

I'm not exactly sure what "special" means in this context... are you saying the PC's are the only band of roving killers for hire /tomb raiders/adventurers in your games?

EDIT: I mean let's look at the atypical D&D world... the Forgotten Realms... "heroes" are a dime a dozen in these lands. One band of adventurers isn't particularly special.

No, they aren't, but they're still adventurers. That puts them a full cut above the city guard, in most cases, let alone the butcher or local pig farmer.