D&D 5E December Package is here, it was about time!!

[filthgrinder]

Fighter: Holy , that is a lot of damage dealing and damage reduction. You can parry every round and deal full attack damage? Are... are you sure that's balanced?

This.

Am I reading it right? It seems to say that you can use all your martial dice every TURN. So you can add in extra damage on your turn, and then reduce damage every turn (basically every attack). Is this the case? My players are level 3, so does the fighter basically get 2d6 damage reduction on every monster's turn?

 

[nightwalker450]

This.

Am I reading it right? It seems to say that you can use all your martial dice every TURN. So you can add in extra damage on your turn, and then reduce damage every turn (basically every attack). Is this the case? My players are level 3, so does the fighter basically get 2d6 damage reduction on every monster's turn?

Since the parry/protect are labeled as reactions, you can only do it to one attack. Even Combat Reflexes only gives you an additional Opportunity attack (not a defense). So at most you'll be using your dice 3 times, once on your turn when you attack, once on an opponents turn if they attack you (or an ally), and once on an (separate) opponents turn if they provoke. At first I was thinking Deflect was making light weapons much better than shields for this same reason, but then I realized Deflect will only be good until you can overwhelm their damage with your Parry dice. So daggers are better for low level fighters than shields are.

This is rules-lawyer territory:

Dual Wielding is a really powerful feat. Due to the wording of making two attacks, if you have Dual Wielding feat and are not wielding a light weapon you get your bonuses to damage on both weapons (since it only removes the bonus damage from your light weapon).

I hope it is true that Two-Weapon Defense will work for people using shield, since it is a weapon you'll have proficiency with. You'll need two-weapon fighting to attack with both it and your main hand weapon though, unless your main hand is light.

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

I'm mostly positive, though it's feeling a bit complex with Marital Damage Dice, Martial Damage Bonus, and Skill Dice.

Also, Studded Dragon Leather? I puke in my mouth. Death to studded leather!

 

[Hussar]

I'm mostly positive, though it's feeling a bit complex with Marital Damage Dice, Martial Damage Bonus, and Skill Dice.

Also, Studded Dragon Leather? I puke in my mouth. Death to studded leather!

Eh? What's wrong with studded leather?

 

[Salamandyr]

Eh? What's wrong with studded leather?

It's completely a-historical and kind of ridiculous. Adding metal studs to leather would actually decrease the protective value it provides.

It's a hoary mistake by an old book that misidentified the rivets holding the plates in bringandine, a kind of leather or cloth covered scale armor, as "studded leather" that Gygax repeated when he wrote the the Advanced rules.

 

[Li Shenron]

Well the new package is here, what are your first impressions?

1) Horribly complicated, now playing ANY class is much much more complex than even 3e.

Maybe now the simplest character is the Wizard... because to play a Cleric I have to learn the mechanics for managing cantrips, spells, rituals, channeling, combat expertise, skill dice, and making a lot of mandatory changes just at character creation time.

2) Damage bloat, it was fantastic to have Deadly Strike as a Fighter. In 35+ years they never managed to give the Fighter an edge, now they had something perfect: plenty of tactical choices if you want, straight bigger damage if you don't. They should have stopped there.

Now everyone except the Wizard has that, plus even some flat bonus at higher level just to make sure that everybody's HP will need to inflate accordingly in next packets.

3) Wizard spellcasting changes, a step away from traditional D&D. Since this is a default and not an option, this does not please those who hate traditional D&D, but rather pleases those who hate people who like traditional D&D.

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These are a pity, because otherwise the packet is sprinkled with good stuff, innovative ideas... classes have ENORMOUS FLEXIBILITY. Now this is a GOOD thing, but only if you can afford to invest a lot of time mastering the game. Everybody else, beginners, casual gamers, parents who struggle to find one free night per month for gaming (these are pretty much the types in our group), should really look to some other game, because when all this flexibility is MANDATORY, there is no way we are going to play this edition.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Seems to me we've got TWO separate things we're playtesting here, and it gives a very good explanation covering the reasons for many of the complaints here.

Levels 1 to 10 are several iterations forward in progression. They are really focusing in on making things that might be permanent. Getting the right balance on powers and abilities, making them all interact with each other, and probably in preparation towards the multi-classing rules.

Levels 11 to 20? FIRST PACKET MATERIAL. These levels seem to be doing nothing but allowing us to balance the numbers. That's it. They're asking us to make sure the CORE of the upper tier works mathmatically. We're doing with this packet's upper tier the exact same thing we did with the very first playtest packet last May for the lower tier. That's why there are no additional feats handed out, no additional maneuvers, why there's just a martial damage bonus rather than additional dice tricks, etc. etc. etc.

They want us to make sure the basic math of the upper tier works out before they start giving us all the specialty crap of feats and maneuvers and dice and all that stuff that will potentially screw everything up.

Seems to me they are rolling the upper tier out EXACTLY as they should be.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Like:
Rogue Skill Tricks
Monk Traditions
Monks no longer having an alignment requirement, and just suggesting they're mostly lawful
More spells scaling based on slot used
Sneak Attack not being gimped
Cantrips as at will again
There's more a reason to use a Rapier with 1d8 damage
Casting in armour dependant on proficiencies
Domain choices offer a lot of cleric customization
Turn undead isn't forced on all clerics

Dislike
Fighters and Rogues not getting new tricks to use after 10th level, unlike spellcasters. I think that classes should still learn new manuevers and tricks after level 10
No feats after 10th level, I know they want to reduce "choice paralysis" but it doesn't feel right that there's no feats after level 10.
Many spells with long casting times are still not rituals
Most characters can't cast any ritual they know on the fly
Very limited spell slots, I think there should be just a little more for the high level spells
Magic items not being changed much
Human ability mods problematic

 

[mlund]

I see a lot I like initially:

- Skill Die: I like this mechanic generally, and I like Rogue's skill tricks specifically - though I think some of them don't scale well at higher levels (like Gilded Tongue). I do like seeing the mechanics to shake Disadvantage.
- Martial Damage Bonus: Even thought it is one more modifier to keep track of it only changes after 4 or 5 levels at a time. It's excellent because it provides utility to multi-attack maneuvers like Whirlwind Attack and Volley.
- Two-Weapon Fighting: It probably needs more proof-reading work, but it's definitely viable now, at least as a Specialty.
- Maneuvers: Volley and Whirlwind Attack now give incentive to use more damaging weapons. Shove, Trip, and Disarm scale very well with expending extra dice. Again, I like the opportunities to shake Disadvantage.
- Flatter To-Hit: Starting from the lower scale (+0/+1) appeals to me.
- Channel Divinity: Solid
- Deities: Generally nicely put together, though I'd prefer to package them as domains instead of dieties
- Cantrips: Bringing these back to at-will functionality was necessary
- High-level Spell: 1-per-spell-level seems like just the right placement for such earth-shattered, plot-device-level powers.

Things that still need work:
- Maneuvers: Abilities restricted by character size need to go. If we're using size-scaling it should be based on the target absolutely: Category 1 = Medium Sized or Smaller, Category 2 = Larger, Category 3 = Huge. I'd like to see scaling at High Level Play (11+) where you can topple a Category 3 creature if you try hard enough. Glancing Blow still seems worded like they expect Expertise Dice scaling past the d6.
- Parry: Monsters aren't going to attack Fighters. Fighters are hard to hit, have a damage-soak roll, and aren't the least bit sticky. The Teflon Tank is in full effect. Give the Fighter an option to make it a worse decision to attack the Fighter's team-mates.
- Skills: Still the same terrible 3.X skill list that needs to die in a fire. I like see Persuade brought in, even if it is just an analog to Diplomacy. I want to see skill-related traits instead of skills, that describe circumstances you could use the Skill Die to assist with and can freely overlap instead of these terrible narrow silos like "Use Rope." I want to see "Persuasive," "Shrewd," and "Forceful" all side-by-side - each one giving you help in situations where you might want to threaten someone (Intimidate) but completely distinct in other places of application: Shrewd helps you ferret out lies; Persuasive helps you lie; Forceful helps you lift, push, and throw things etc.

 

[Melkor]

I am really liking this packet so far. Seeing it as a big step in the right direction.