D&D 5E L&L - D&D Next Goals, Part One

[Blackwarder]

I got into D&D because I though that the big box at the game store window, with the lone axe man against the great big dragon, was a board game.

It had a map of a dungeon, a small book, dices, and cards with a "chose your path" style adventure that you played on the map solo (I almost forgot the paper minis).

it also had the solo adventure as an adventure that you could run your friends through. It was the most awsome thing I ever got for my birthday until than (twenty years later I got my first iPhone but that's another story )

My point is, having an entry level box set like the one I got, and then having another tier of products for AD&D seems like a great idea for me. Up until 3e I always felt that every version of D&D I ever played was essentially the same and was interchangeable, 3e and 4e not so much.

Warder

 

[Blackwarder]

Yet plenty of people played AD&D using Moldvay Basic plus the AD&D PHB, and I gather in the 2nd ed era many groups played without a DMG.

I think there are a lot of different ways that groups approached the game, at least back in the 70s and 80s, and it would make sense for WotC to try and make multiple angles of approach feasible.

We played for years with no MM, I haven't owned a MM till 3e... I used BD&D monsters mainly.

Warder

 

[Stormonu]

We played for years with no MM, I haven't owned a MM till 3e... I used BD&D monsters mainly.

Warder

Actually, I played most of my 1E years without a MM, as the ol' DMG had a monster combat matrix in it with the creatures vital stats (no fluff, just the raw combat stats).

However, of all the D&D stuff I have, if it hadn't been for the Moldvay set, my D&D interest would have never gotten off the ground. AD&D was too complex a starting point for me.

I really think D&D needs something like that ol' B/X or B(ECMI) set for new players. Preferably, something you don't HAVE to move away from after one or two uses.

At the same time, perhaps we could do with something like the ol' OD&D 3 booklet set, and build a more complex/expanded book from that, even if it isn't 100% compatible with the advanced game - as long as the compatibility is as good as, say AD&D to BECMI (where you could run Caves of Chaos and the like with either ruleset without having to change anything).

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

Much ado about nothing then. This sounds pretty much like has been done in the past in many editions, if not all.

I wonder why Mearls has to say first "it won't be a sampler" then say that it will be "introductory". What's the difference? The basic product will be limited in some way compared to the 3 core books, either vertically (only the first X levels) or horizontally (only N% of classes, races, spells, feats...) or both. The bit about being able to run a "complete campaign" would suggest me that it won't be limited in level, but at this stage I'm getting the feeling that Mearls is just sending confusing messages so let's wait until next week when he'll write about it more clearly.

It seems likely the "basic" product will be limited horizontally (probably simple versions of the four core classes and races). That doesn't make it a "sampler" - you can still make a character just as powerful and complete as anything from the PHB, albeit maybe less complex. You want an extra 200 pages of classes, feats, and spells, you can buy the PHB.
But plenty of casual players, and even dedicated roleplayers more interested in story than mechanics, might be perfectly happy playing long-term characters using nothing but the basic rules.

 

[Stormonu]

Although I wouldn't mind a "lite" D&D base game on par with OD&D / Swords & Wizardry complexity, I do hope they don't just do 4 races / 4 classes. I'm hoping they'll have all the PHB core races and classes, even if they're very stripped-down versions.

 

[tuxgeo]

Settlers of Catan, $42.
Carcassonne, $30
Ticket to Ride, $50
Dominion, $45
Smallworld $50
Lords of Waterdeep, $50
Forbidden Island, $17
Dungeon, $20
Monopoly, $18-$25
Risk, $30-$60

Of these, Forbidden Island is a wee little tin box with a bunch of cards, four plastic treasures, and some little people things. Dungeon is 30 years old and while it's been well-reviewed, I've also seen commentary on the low/cheap production. Monopoly is boring as all get-out. . . .

[Not to derail the thread, but ]
Speaking of Monopoly: Has everyone seen the new Monopoly push on the Hasbro site?
They say they're going to permanently retire one of the eight tokens and replace with either (a) robot, (b) diamond ring, (c) cat, (d) helicopter, or (e) guitar. The public gets to vote (on Facebook), no more than once per day per person. Ends Feb. 6.
(Voting involves saying which of the old tokens you want to keep, and which of the new ones you want as the replacement of the least-favored old one. The wheelbarrow is looking shaky right now.)

Quote of the contest: "Don't leave this one to Chance."

 

[Li Shenron]

It seems likely the "basic" product will be limited horizontally (probably simple versions of the four core classes and races). That doesn't make it a "sampler" - you can still make a character just as powerful and complete as anything from the PHB, albeit maybe less complex. You want an extra 200 pages of classes, feats, and spells, you can buy the PHB.

Do you know what will really make it a sampler? Not what WotC says it is, but rather whether all other official D&D products will be usable by those who only own this "Basic D&D book".

If supplements, campaign settings main books, and published adventures will require also the PHB/DMG/MM, then the "Basic D&D book" will be only a sampler, no matter what the designers claim it is.

But plenty of casual players, and even dedicated roleplayers more interested in story than mechanics, might be perfectly happy playing long-term characters using nothing but the basic rules.

Yes, I agree this is probably true.

 

[Sunseeker]

Do you know what will really make it a sampler? Not what WotC says it is, but rather whether all other official D&D products will be usable by those who only own this "Basic D&D book".

If supplements, campaign settings main books, and published adventures will require also the PHB/DMG/MM, then the "Basic D&D book" will be only a sampler, no matter what the designers claim it is.

I hate to be blunt, but who cares if people who can only afford a $20 box can use supplements with them? If that's all they're going to be able to afford, then they're clearly not going to buy any supplements!

 

[Li Shenron]

I hate to be blunt, but who cares if people who can only afford a $20 box can use supplements with them? If that's all they're going to be able to afford, then they're clearly not going to buy any supplements!

But I don't care either. I am merely commenting on a use of language in the WotC articles that makes little sense, probably not worth to discuss. It reminds me of the nonsense of "everything is core!" days.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Do you know what will really make it a sampler? Not what WotC says it is, but rather whether all other official D&D products will be usable by those who only own this "Basic D&D book".

If supplements, campaign settings main books, and published adventures will require also the PHB/DMG/MM, then the "Basic D&D book" will be only a sampler, no matter what the designers claim it is.

So the PHB/DMG/MM of every edition is just a sampler, since they're required for the other products?

I don't think that NEXT will require that trifecta anymore -- if you have the "basic" book, you should be able to use any of the supplements.