Character Problem

[Greenfield]

We had some new players join our group this week. Whenever this happens there's a "fitting in" period, a time when the player gets to see what works with the group, and the group evaluates the new players.

In our game, because practically everyone's a DM at some point or another, it can be even rougher to manage. Things I find acceptable might ruffle the feathers of someone else.

Which is not what's going on in this case, I'm just saying that somebody else might find the new characters acceptable, even if I don't.

One of the PCs is a Half Vampire Cleric/Sorcerer/True Necromancer who has taken a Vow of Poverty, and has a Ghostly Visage (Fiend Folio, I think) as his familiar.

I noticed immediately that his weapon was a Lucern Hammer, Adamantine and Dark Metal alloy. His clothing is silk. I think that violates the Vow of Poverty. He said it was okay. I looked it up and he's allowed simple weapons, non-magic and non-masterworked. Clothing should be simple, such as home spun robes. So I think we need to talk.

His rules knowledge seems a bit off as well. He tried to use Speak with Dead to question the spirit (not the body) of a recently slain shop keeper. He didn't know that it doesn't work that way.

My concern, over all though, is the stuff from the Book of Exalted Deeds. It's a book we haven't used, and I'm not that familiar with a lot of it. I've gotten the feeling here that Vow of Poverty is a borderline rules rape.

What are your feelings?

(BTW: He says that his character is Lawful Good, though True Necromancer has a prerequisite of "Any non-good")

 

[the Jester]

My concern, over all though, is the stuff from the Book of Exalted Deeds. It's a book we haven't used, and I'm not that familiar with a lot of it. I've gotten the feeling here that Vow of Poverty is a borderline rules rape.

What are your feelings?

There are probably only two or three things in the BoED that are not broken. Vow of Poverty ain't one of them. Not only that, home boy seems to be trying to violate the spirit of the VoP already, with his fancy expensive hammer.

I'd be very wary if I were in your position. (In my own campaign, he'd have to start over from scratch- no half-vampire, no starting with a ghostly visage as a familiar.)

 

[Sunseeker]

Vow of Poverty is powerful, but mostly in the hands of someone who wants to break it. If you follow it's rules, which having a lucern hammer and silk clothes is a violation of.

His other rules-not-knowing is probably just an issue of rules-not-knowing, but the lucern hammer and the silk is a pretty clear violation...and yeah, no true necromancer who's lawful good...

 

[Greenfield]

I could see the silk as an oversight. He's supposedly from Japan, visiting Rome. The hammer, being made of Adamantine, is by definition master worked. He seemed to think that that was okay, again an oversight, if a convenient one.

If I was going to be a, ahem, Richard, as a DM, I could allow him to walk in, play for a bit, then call him for the violations and strip him of all of his bonus abilities and feats for violating the Vow. If I recall correctly, you break it even once and it's gone, irrevokably.

That's a hell of a way to welcome a new player to the group though.

 

[Nezkrul]

look up PrC requirements on True Necromancer... Now look up what it takes to have/earn/keep an Exalted Feat... now palmface yourself.

 

[Greenfield]

look up PrC requirements on True Necromancer... Now look up what it takes to have/earn/keep an Exalted Feat... now palmface yourself.

I did, at least on dandwiki (I don't have my books with me).

The Alignment requirement for True Necromancer is an "entry requirement". It doesn't have any penalties for changing that alignment later, unlike Bard, Paladin or Monk. In theory you could still advance in it even if you were Good, so long as the Good conversion happened after you took your first level.

I'll have to look in the books themselves to be sure. By the way, what book is True Necromancer in?

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

My feelings about the Vow of Poverty are stronger than my feelings about the Feral Template- way too much and not for player use.

It is overpowered if the PC is naked.

You are correct in all the rules violations you have observed, in addition to the fact that this player is likely trying to abuse a few somethings.

True Necromancer is in Libris Mortus, p.51. Alignment requirement is Nongood. Must be able to Rebuke undead and access to the Death domain are a few other requirements. Some class abilities include being able to create zones of Desecration.

The fluff text reads, in part:
"Power Corrupts. Power over life and death corrupts absolutely. The power to raise an undying servant from the husk of the formerly living is darkly tempting- and certainly evil."
The text goes on to use words like "sinister schooling", "Combine the foulest aspects" and "Evil associations".

Some bread & Butter spells such as Animate Dead, Create Undead, Create Greater Undead etc. are spells of the Evil subtype. True Necromancer gets Create Undead and Create Greater Undead as class abilities.

I like symbionts, I really do. I try to find a way to acquire a psionic sinew in games if my DM is willing to let me.

However, a few things about the Ghostly Visage:

-it is not on any list I'm aware of for acceptable familiars.

-It is a Fiendish symbiont. Let me quote some text from the Fiend Folio, p.219 under "Drawbacks of Fiendish Symbiont":

"Creatures of good alignment with a fiendish symbiont must make a will save (DC 15) every day or take 1d3 points of wisdom damage"

"Creatures of non-evil alignment must make a will save (DC 15) each day or succumb to temptation to perform an evil act"

"When characters with fiendish symbionts interact with nonevil NPCs, a -6 circumstance penalty is applied on all charisma checks"

Now, Book of Exalted Deeds reads, in part on p.39:
"Only intelligent characters of good alignment and the highest moral standards can acquire exalted feats, and only as a gift from powerful agents of good- deities, celestials, or similar creatures... a character who willingly and willfully commits an evil act looses all the benefits from all his exalted feats."

I don't think anyone can spin a clever enough backstory to justify a Exalted feat Ghostly Visage Lawful Good Half Vampire True Necromancer. Even if he did, as soon as he did anything using his class powers or succumbed to his familiar, he'd lose the exalted feat.

...If he wants to make a non-good Half Vampire True Necromancer and is ok with being compelled daily to do an evil act from his Ghostly Visage not-familiar, then groovy. Or he can just swallow the evil alignment.

 

[Dandu]

Tell him that his munchkinry is unacceptable and his kung-fu is weak.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

Gently let him know that the character he has created violates several rules, and specifically go over the biggest offenders. If you're not familiar with the stuff in BoED it's probably best that you not use or allow most things from the book at all since many things in it require the whole party be okay with it and work around that stuff. Allow him a chance to recreate his character, but make sure you lay down certain rules first (such as no BoED stuff).

 

[Empirate]

I think Vow of Poverty was a good basic idea taken to grossly, hilariously insane extremes in completely the wrong (game system) environment. Some designer noticed how powerful characters in D&D are very gear-dependent, and didn't like that. So he invented a feat that was intended to do away with the item side of D&D entirely. "Forget it, you don't need items, and you don't get items, just play the character already, not his stuff." Something along those lines. Nice in theory, but would fit better in an entirely different game...
My advice is to just ban it outright for being "not of D&D". So you don't have to put up with stupid character concepts such as this. And while you're at it, go ahead already and ban the rest of BoED, as well, because it's just that bad (if you take away VoP, he'll want the Saint template instead, or something...).

The Lucern Hammer... I don't see how he even needs that as a (mostly) primary caster. Have fun missing a lot of attacks, I'd say, and leave it.

The Ghostly Visage can explicitly be taken as a familiar by the Dread Necromancer base class, and no other class that I'm aware of. Your player probably confused two flavors of necromancer here, I'd call it an oversight, disallow it, and that's that. Ghostly Visages are quite powerful (duplicating what almost amounts to a 24h Mind Blank AND giving you a paralyzing gaze), you shouldn't let him just keep it.

The alignment issue can easily be resolved with altering the character's background a little and calling him LN instead of LG, or something like that. However, the player might just be LG so he can worship a specific deity for its mechanical benefits, so you might want to look into that.


All that said, a Half-Vampire True Necromancer is probably the single least powerful spellcaster you could find - he gives up like his three highest potential spell levels to be able to raise some weak-sauce undead and cast lots of first and second level spells. Not only does your player not possess much rules knowledge, his optimization is lacking big time. Maybe sit down with the player, ask him about his character concept, then suggest something simpler and a little more streamlined for his first time in your group?