D&D 5E Will there be such a game as D&D Next?

[thecasualoblivion]

i think healing in a few short hours is absolutely cinematic. It certainly isnt gritty. You see this in action movies all the time where the hero gets beaten up and recovers in a short span. It isnt the only way to do cinematic. A lot of cinematic games also have things like hero points you can use to avoid taking damage or re roll (which helps simulate the dusting yourself off after a house falls on you for example).

'Not gritty' is a low bar to set for cinematic. 1hp/hr is more of a wishy washy nothing than either cinematic or gritty as it fails both.

 

[Bedrockgames]

'Not gritty' is a low bar to set for cinematic. 1hp/hr is more of a wishy washy nothing than either cinematic or gritty as it fails both.

really? I have to disagree. This isnt simpy about not being gritty. I actually play a lot of cinematic games and a heal rate like that is pretty darn cinematic. A truly cinematic game I would also expect to have bennies or something. But a heal rate of your level/hour is indeed cinematic. Not wishy washy at all. Basically means it never take more than one day to heal. That is cinema. How many times do you see the hero hurt and either at someones home, a cave or hospital to recover, where it only takes him a few hours or a day to be back on his feet and fighting the enemy? You see this kind of thing in martial arts movies and action flicks all the time.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

really? I have to disagree. This isnt simpy about not being gritty. I actually play a lot of cinematic games and a heal rate like that is pretty darn cinematic. A truly cinematic game I would also expect to have bennies or something. But a heal rate of your level/hour is indeed cinematic. Not wishy washy at all. Basically means it never take more than one day to heal. That is cinema. How many times do you see the hero hurt and either at someones home, a cave or hospital to recover, where it only takes him a few hours or a day to be back on his feet and fighting the enemy? You see this kind of thing in martial arts movies and action flicks all the time.

You make my argument for me. 1hp/hr by itself doesn't deliver cinematic healing, by your own words. By your own words, and I agree with you on this, it's the bennies that deliver cinematic healing. In 4E those bennies were healing surges and powers that let you spend them in combat.

In the absence of bennies, lets drop the illusion that 5E delivers anything in this regard.

 

[Obryn]

really? I have to disagree. I actually pkay a lot of cinematic games and a heal rate like that is pretty darn cinematic. A truly cinematic game I would also expect to have bennies or something. But a heal rate of your level/hour is indeed cinematic. Not wishy washy at all. Basically means it never take more than one day to heal. That is cinema. How many times do you see the hero hurt and either at someones home, a cave or hospital to recover, where it only takes him a few hours or a day to be back on his feet and fighting the enemy? You see this kind of thing in martial arts movies and action flicks all the time.

When I think "cinematic" this is not at all what I'm thinking of. It involves a turnaround mid-fight, not in a few hours or days.

I tend to agree with [MENTION=59096]thecasualoblivion[/MENTION] here - it's an intentionally wishy-washy middle ground, neither cinematic nor gritty. IMO that's fine for a likely pared-down core game. I don't expect to see anything resembling the designers taking a stand on anything in what's supposed to be a common denominator.

-O

 

[thecasualoblivion]

When I think "cinematic" this is not at all what I'm thinking of. It involves a turnaround mid-fight, not in a few hours or days.

The mid-fight turnaround I'd actually file under tactical depth. Cinematic Action is more about the pacing of the adventure as a whole.

 

[Iosue]

You make my argument for me. 1hp/hr by itself doesn't deliver cinematic healing, by your own words.

It's not just 1hp/hr, it's 1hp*level per hour. Which is pretty cinematic. It means your first level fighter can get beat to within an inch of his life, at death's door at 8 am in the morning, and by 2 pm he's back at full strength. It means your 2nd level fighter can be at death's door at 8 am and be even stronger than the 1st level fighter by 11.

And that's at the lowest setting (barring no healing at all). Use Hit Dice, and that fighter who was making death saves can be back up to full strength, or near full strength in 10 minutes. Use Experimental Rule 2, and you can go from 1 hp up to bloodied value in 10 minutes. A 3rd level fighter can go from 1 hp to stronger than a 1st level fighter at max hp in that same time.

 

[pemerton]

Those tweets definitely do not provide validation to the assumptions of an anti-4E attitude or a lack of understanding 4E concerning the current designers at WotC.

I referred to them as counting in favour of my assertion upthread that the D&Dnext designers are allergic to 4e-style metagame mechanics.

And I think it bears that out pretty clearly, as you yourself implicitly acknowledge when you say "it does sound like they do want to take more of a 3E Marshal approach".

Honestly, that may be the only feasible path to take for this concerning the mechanics. They need to find the common elements and build from them.

Again, this strikes me as a somewhat euphemistic way ("common elements") of saying "no metagame mechanics" (because they're not common, but particular to 4e).

If the 5E Warlord has different terminology, some different fluff, but essentially plays the same mechanically (such as being able to restore allies hit points even if it's not actually called "healing"), then what difference does it make?

In the tweets I quoted Mearls appears disinclined to go this route - he says no healing, where by healing is meant giving back hit points.

 

[Bedrockgames]

When I think "cinematic" this is not at all what I'm thinking of. It involves a turnaround mid-fight, not in a few hours or days.

I tend to agree with @thecasualoblivion here - it's an intentionally wishy-washy middle ground, neither cinematic nor gritty. IMO that's fine for a likely pared-down core game. I don't expect to see anything resembling the designers taking a stand on anything in what's supposed to be a common denominator.

-O

Midfight heals can be cinematic, but I really dont think they are what make a game cinematic. There are a lot of cinematic RPGs that don't have midfight healing.

 

[Obryn]

Midfight heals can be cinematic, but I really dont think they are what make a game cinematic. There are a lot of cinematic RPGs that don't have midfight healing.

Fair enough, but neither is overnight healing.

-O

 

[thecasualoblivion]

It's not just 1hp/hr, it's 1hp*level per hour. Which is pretty cinematic. It means your first level fighter can get beat to within an inch of his life, at death's door at 8 am in the morning, and by 2 pm he's back at full strength. It means your 2nd level fighter can be at death's door at 8 am and be even stronger than the 1st level fighter by 11.

And that's at the lowest setting (barring no healing at all). Use Hit Dice, and that fighter who was making death saves can be back up to full strength, or near full strength in 10 minutes. Use Experimental Rule 2, and you can go from 1 hp up to bloodied value in 10 minutes. A 3rd level fighter can go from 1 hp to stronger than a 1st level fighter at max hp in that same time.

What you say is a superficial take on things and misses the point. The point of cinematic action is that a lot of action(HP damage in this case) happens with few long term consequences and no interruption to the adventure. Having to rest for hours by itself breaks that. 'Not gritty' isnt the point, continuing on without being forced to rest for more than a few minutes is the point.