Planescape Do You Care About Planescape Lore?

[Li Shenron]

I guess my point here is "if backwards compatibility is actually a goal, don't change something's essence without giving it a new name."

Yes!

 

[SkidAce]

It was AD&D lore before it was Planescape lore (see the PHB and Manual of the Planes). It was already part of every AD&D setting before Planescape came out (except Dark Sun, which isn't reachable in Planescape). Planescape just added more detail to the AD&D cosmology that already existed. As far as I know, the only things that are actually "from Planescape" are Sigil and the factions (and a few creatures).

This is how I saw it then and still see it now. Good post.

 

[SkidAce]

I like Planescape. It was one of my favorite 2e-era D&D supplements. I loved running adventures around Sigil.

However, as much as is possible, I'd prefer D&D as a whole did not have a "default" cosmology. I would much prefer DM advice about building such a thing. (Really, I don't think much is actually necessary.) Any DM or group should feel completely open to use whatever cosmology they want without re-writing or ignoring gobs of fluff. If they feel compelled to include the previous cosmologies as examples....so be it, I guess.

And in the end THIS is my opinion of how it should be. Leave the cosmos to each individual DM/campaign, with advice.

 

[SkidAce]

Apparently I'm strange in that I grew up reading Michael Moorcock along with Tolkien, right when I started playing D&D.

So both the ideas of planes and there being philosophical forces (Law & Chaos) are something I strongly associate with fantasy and D&D. So I like the idea of the Great Wheel, and while some aspects of Planescape struck me as silly (the cant), for the most part is was well done.

And this.


This is an illuminating thread for reading. Keeps pulling me out of lurk mode.

 

[SkidAce]

A final post...

I want to give a shout out to everybody posting in this thread. Both sides clearly explaining their views. I can understand (maybe not agree) and see everyone's point of view.

That's a good thing for THE game, and OUR individual games. Rock on people!

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Secondly, the OP is misinterpreting the "Great Wheel" planar structure as being somehow unique to Planescape. While Planescape massively fleshed it out, the fundamental aspects of that arrangement pre-date Planescape, as others have noted. This isn't some arbitrary setting-specific idea that was forced onto other campaigns that already existed; this is how it always was in AD&D.

The Wheel's arrangement != lore

 

[Umbran]

I've had a look, but I'm afraid I can't find the source quote.

Dancey, in an (undated) piece discussing the purchase of TSR by WotC, and the subsequent surveying they did:

"Our customers were telling us that we spent too much time on our own worlds, and not enough time on theirs? Ok - we can fix that. We can re-orient the business towards tools, towards examples, towards universal systems and rules that aren't dependent on owning a thousand dollars of unnecessary materials first.
...snip...
We listened when the customers told us that Alternity wasn't what they wanted in a science fiction game. We listened when customers told us that they didn't want the confusing, jargon filled world of Planescape. We listened when people told us that the Ravenloft concept was overshadowed by the products of a competitor. We listened to customers who told us that they want core materials, not world materials. That they buy DUNGEON magazine every two months at a rate twice that of our best selling stand-alone adventures."

(my source is here: http://insaneangel.com/insaneangel/RPG/Dancey.html)

Not clear data, obviously. And it is concerning the market back over a decade ago. But it still suggests that world information was not as useful to most folks as core information is.

For purposes of this discussion, I'd expect monsters stats to be "core information", not world information. World information would be details on the interrelations of various factions and species. So, give us demons, devils, and yugoloths, but don't give us the Blood War.

 

[Alzrius]

The Wheel's arrangement != lore

I agree that the "Great Wheel" arrangement of the planes isn't Planescape-specific lore, but my read of the OP's post is that he's including that (as opposed to the 4E planar structure) in his jeremiad.

 

[Mournblade94]

Yes planescape was an additive setting. 4e lore was largely a SUBTRACTIVE endeavor. It TOOK things away rather than giving things like plane scape did.

 

[Imaro]

Apparently I'm strange in that I grew up reading Michael Moorcock along with Tolkien, right when I started playing D&D.

So both the ideas of planes and there being philosophical forces (Law & Chaos) are something I strongly associate with fantasy and D&D. So I like the idea of the Great Wheel, and while some aspects of Planescape struck me as silly (the cant), for the most part is was well done.

This...

Planescape (and the Great Wheel Cosmology) for me harken back to the strangeness of a certain subset of sword and sorcery along the lines of Moorcock and (to a lesser extent) Lieber as well as weird fanatsy like that written by China Mieville. For me D&D has always had much more in common with the stories of these authors than with the faerie tale/mythical trappings that 4e's cosmology speaks to. I realize it's just my preference and YMMV... so yeah I voted for Planescape.