Can the GM cheat?

[WhimsyTheFae]

Someone should have defined railroading for the rest of us before stating that it is never a good thing.

I was confused into thinking that we were discussing the generally accepted definition of railroading.

 

[Umbran]

I've heard about these players who love being railroaded online before but never seen one in real life.

Shall we begin making a list of things that you have never personally directly witnessed, but exist regardless? That list will be long.

I'll start: An individual atom. The bottom of the Marianas Trench. Radio waves. The far side of the Moon....

Once this list is made, you can ask yourself why you accept the existence of so many of these other things, but reject this one.

 

[timASW]

Shall we begin making a list of things that you have never personally directly witnessed, but exist regardless? That list will be long.

I'll start: An individual atom. The bottom of the Marianas Trench. Radio waves. The far side of the Moon....

Once this list is made, you can ask yourself why you accept the existence of so many of these other things, but reject this one.

You dont Know I've never seen those things. ROV's can go pretty deep underwater now.

 

[WhimsyTheFae]

Personally. Directly. Witnessed.

 

[timASW]

Someone should have defined railroading for the rest of us before stating that it is never a good thing.

I was confused into thinking that we were discussing the generally accepted definition of railroading.

Is there one?

 

[timASW]

Personally. Directly. Witnessed.

Hundreds, possibly thousands of navy submariners, scientists and interns to scientists have seen the bottom of that trench, you have no idea if I am one of those thousands or not. And "witnessing" radio waves could very easily be sitting in a control room for a radio station and watching the graphs of them go up and down as you speak and play songs. Millions of people have seen those.

Sounds like your making a statement based on what you think someone means or has experienced. I hear that making broad statements based on reading peoples minds is frowned upon here.

 

[WhimsyTheFae]

Okay, I personally don't require your validation, but it is fun to participate in various discussions. I do find it odd that you would imply that players who prefer railroading don't exist because you've never seen them. Now, I don't know if you've personally and directly witnessed any of those things Umbran listed. Maybe you have. Maybe if everyone on this forum listed every possible thing in the universe, we'll find that you've personally, and directly, witnessed each and every one.

I'm going to go out on a thin very thin limb (risking being banned for the audacity of this accusation) and say that you have not personally, and directly, witnessed everything in the universe. How that might effect the credibility of your claim regarding the nonexistence of players who prefer railroading is anyone's guess.

I'll pray you're correct though, because my wife's lies are very upsetting and I am looking forward to using your infallible proof to finally put an end to her falsehoods.

 

[WhimsyTheFae]

Is there one?

I believe that "taking away player choice at some level" is generally accepted. The level at which that choice is restricted becomes the topic of debate. By adding "or I'm taking my books and going home", you've narrowed the definition into an area that not everyone would agree to.

In addition, by questioning if there is a generally accepted definition of railroading, you've put your own assertions in doubt.

 

[timASW]

I believe that "taking away player choice at some level" is generally accepted. The level at which that choice is restricted becomes the topic of debate. By adding "or I'm taking my books and going home", you've narrowed the definition into an area that not everyone would agree to.

In addition, by questioning if there is a generally accepted definition of railroading, you've put your own assertions in doubt.

No I havent.

Its very simple when talking to gamers what sounds more likely?

That game was awful, he railroaded the out of us

or

That was an awsome game, we were told where to go, and how to work, all day each day

 

[pemerton]

I think it does involve no less of a railroad than the node model because there is at least one outcome you've taken off the table - avoidance of the scene.

The players can avoid the scene at the metagame level, by disputing the GM's framing ("That's crap - can't we do this other thing?"). But once framed, they have to engage the scene via their PCs, yes.

The metagame approach to scene-avoidance was of course discussed at great length in the recent "Surprising the GM" thread. (Does [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] want to come back in on that?)