You're a villain. How would you change the world? Contest with prizes. (Spoilers for ZEITGEIST)

[Hitomi Camacho]

I have explained on the discussion thread but to make it short, 'the path to hell is paved with good intentions', Panarchist is the way to go, will both surprise the players and is the one that will make the bigger impact and make things go wrong, really wrong.

 

[Shilubi]

Miller's doctrine...really?
What's in man's mind? Emotion and logic don't make up for morals. You could end up with very bad things, emotionaly shared and enforced by logic.
There's no safeguard against evil in your plan.
Your plan is a tool to easily convert people, but you don't say who will convert them!
And worse, you open the world to extraplanar influence!
Did i say "devils"?

The true, courageous way is the Watchmakers.
We will make sure we go the right path.
We will make sure everyone go the right path.

We might not have another chance to put things right.

 

[Shilubi]

This being said, i have to confront the most popular doctrine right now, the Panarchist.

Won't be long.

Read this:
"People who made agreements would be able to share a bit of each other's soul, which would make pledges binding. Anyone who shirked on a promise would forfeit a piece of his soul."

Whoa.
Binding agreements, made on one's soul.
And this from Han Jierre, who's a tiefling.

'nuff said.

Not my future...

 

[ltclnlbrain]

Leyander raises at eyebrow at the Watchman's argument. "Ah, yes? 'We' will make sure everybody follows the right path. Who are these few 'we' who get to decide which path is the right path? You desire to enforce morality by eliminating free will, but whose morality, I ask? Is it the morality of the Clergy? The Danorans? The Risuri? What makes one person's or people's 'goodness' better than another's? Instead of seeking to understand the differences that make us unique, you wish to make us all conform to a stale, mechanical sameness. The world would be populated with naught but mindless automatons!"

The elf raps his cane on the floor. "Our ability to think for ourselves and to reason is the thing that separates man from machine. The thing that makes us unique and vibrant. You would rob us of our very souls!" Leyander lets the silence hang in the air for a few moments, then continues. "As for your other point, you fear the chance for extraplanar assault. If we listened to you and abandoned our free will, what then would happen should devils, to use your example, chose to invade our plane of existence? Does your thousand-year plan have contingencies for such an occurence, or would the whole system fall to pieces without the ability to adapt and react to outside threats?

"Under Miller's Pyre, with increased understanding and communication, the varied peoples of Lanjyr could easily come together and unite against a common external threat. Think of what powers we could muster with all of us working side by side. And it might not even have to come to that, if we use the extra planar space to bolster the new multiverse with the protections those of the Aegis desire."

Leyander adjusts his spectacles and turns to address the Panarchists. "I would like to remind you all of a simple maxim. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. What, then, follows when everybody possesses absolute power? You claim you wish to infuse the individual with defensive abilities, but what you will get is bands of super-powered men and women doing whatever they want with no checks to their powers. Instead of preserving civilization, it will lead to its collapse!"

 

[gideonpepys]

"I would like to remind you all of a simple maxim. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. What, then, follows when everybody possesses absolute power? You claim you wish to infuse the individual with defensive abilities, but what you will get is bands of super-powered men and women doing whatever they want with no checks to their powers. Instead of preserving civilization, it will lead to its collapse!"

This is the essential flaw at the heart of Panarchism: if everybody is afforded the same level of power - defensive or otherwise - then power structures will inevitably form, perhaps on different lines to our current world, but their formation is an inevitability. How else is power among equals derived? Through systems of government. The assumption that, if everyone is equal, equality will reign forgets the simple fact that here and now everyone is equal and that it is structures of government that create inequality in the first place.

 

[Empirate]

I voted for a mix of Arboretum, Colossus, and Moral Mind. There is a threefold agenda with this conspiracy, and it is all humanist:

Premise:
Industry is the greatest creation of humanity (used in the widest possible sense). It is proof that by working together as a well-organized whole, with each doing their part, welfare can be produced for the many. Industry will, in due time, eliminate want, thereby eliminating imbalance of resources (of all kinds), and the need to acquire them "the hard way". The only thing that cannot be produced in a factory (metaphorically speaking) is the freedom to enjoy the fruits of industry: freedom of body as well as of mind, with a much greater emphasis on the latter, since it is harder to acquire.

1.
Nature is a powerful force, perhaps the most powerful force in existence. If humanity wishes to be free, the wilds must be tamed. If humanity wishes to prosper, the earth they inhabit must supply the means. Never must the capricious forces of wind or water, fire or earthquake be allowed to lay waste towns by their whims. Never must a human child starve so an animal can live. Never, in a thousand years, must the incomprehensible fey be able to withhold an ounce of what might be useful to a human, or empowered to actively withhold that which is needed to produce universal welfare. Fey are not part of humanity. They are humanity's adversary (potentially, at least) in the inevitable struggle over complete control of nature.

2.
The Colossus is the solution to the fey problem as well as the freedom desideratum. The fey court is powerful, the fey titans unpredictable and possibly near deific in their potency. If (when) war over nature comes, the Colossus is humanity's answer to the fey titan's prowess. Nothing will stand against it. Humanity will rule supreme.
When industry has reached the stage where it can create a virtual god, belief in the power of industry to do whatever is needed will be rendered an incontrovertible truth. Having created their own god, humanity will be freed from the necessity to seek for other higher powers out there: god is that which humans' hands are capable of creating. In essence, humanity itself is the Demiurge, and gods are merely that which humanity wills into being. This simple fact is that which frees us all.

3.
In creating a god-like being, humanity (or at least that part of it which built the Colossus) has left the ties of superstition and religion far, far behind. It is now possible to demonstrate in the clearest terms the utter lack of necessity for other belief systems besides the enlightened mind of creative humanity. After the feys' demise, even the most ignorant of humans will be forced to open their eyes.


With industrial welfare and freedom from extraneous powers and so-called gods comes that mixture of spare time and unbounded roaming of the mind which allows for education, self-awareness, perfection of the individual, and the striving for new and greater things. That is the goal of the conspiracy. However, such lofty goals require wading through the mud, and the blood, for an extended period of time. It will be worth it, but a struggle will come first that will shatter the spheres as we know them, and leave countless dead. Such is the price of great endeavours.

 

[Shilubi]

We is us, the Obscurati. Who else?

We will define what is good.

Miller's Pyre will ease unity. As i said, it's a tool to convert people.
But what ideology will unite them?
You don't adress this.
You just hope it will lead to good endings...

And your example, dear Leyander, is faulty:
The interplanar barriers won't be weakened, so an assault is ruled out. Not something we have to take into consideration.
But for example sake, let's say it happens...devils assaulting our world.
A world where everyone has an ideology that opposes them.
People they won't be able to seduce or sway with logic.
It's in our plan that the devils will have to fight the whole world.
And for what?
A place where, if they stay too long, they might have their ethos changed for goodness?

Our burden and duty is to make sure we will succeed in creating a better place.
The Watchmaker's plans are drastic, but that's what is needed to succeed.
A thousand years where everyone will have to be good. No choice. Soulless.
Our tabula rasa.
Then free will.

 

[gideonpepys]

Then free will.

The elderly ice mage Glaz du Sang Magi* rises to his feet.

"'Then free will', he says. Just like that. One thousand years of dictatorship, then... this." He gestures expansively to indicate the whole world. "I did not forgo my lifelong vow of pacifism for a such a bizarre admixture of arrogance and apathy. I have shed blood for the greater good, and would curse myself for all eternity if this is what I turned out to be fighting for. No one man, or group of men, should consider themselves wise enough to set in stone what is 'good' for all humanity.Since the earliest days of history, men have thought they were 'right', and sought to impose their version of goodness on others. That is how Elfaivar came to be destroyed, and the Great Malice swept through northern Lanjyr; that is how the clergy comes to hold sway and indoctrinate millions of ignorant people. This, my friends, is what we have been fighting against! And worse still, having doomed the forgotten future to this slavery, it is then proposed that we relinquish our grip and pray that a world that has been forced to be 'good' will choose to continue to do so.

"No, Miller's Pyre does not seek to impose an ideology on the world. That is its very strength, not a weakness. Our 'hope' is much stronger than the hopes of the Watchmakers, because it is founded on empathy which will not fade in a thousand years. You starve your brother and you feel his pangs; you slay your neighbour and you sense his fear, and grieve along with his loved ones. Perhaps there will be those who enjoy such sensations, or even grow inured to them. But the brotherhood of man will be ever more strongly united against such evil, psychopathic individuals.

"And remember: we have a spare plane. If interplanar security is your principal concern, vote for Miller's Pyre and Aegis."

*or his ghost, depending upon events in your campaign...

 

[ltclnlbrain]

"Nature need not be an enemy," says Leyander. "Many factions of Vekeshi mystics have strong ties with the fey of the Unseen Court. Indeed, all of Risur benefits from that king's pact with the fey titans of that land. Again, I believe this is a case of xenophobic warmongering on the part of the Arboretum. Perhaps in the brave new world we envision, the fey will be no less inscrutable than our fellow men.

"The Colossus agenda shares the same flaws as the Watchmakers' plan. Who are we, the few who would control great power or who would lock in the future of our world to an inflexible timeline? What gives us the right to decide a blanket collection of mores and morals and apply it to every single person, despite each one's circumstances? Simply because we have the ability to do so, we should do it?" The elf shakes his head. "I have faith in the better nature of humanity. I believe each man should have the right to choose his own destiny, and the power to understand and recognize the right of his brothers and sisters to do so as well, even if their chosen paths be different than his. For there is no one true path that anybody can say is absolutely best for all, but all must respect and accept the path that each man chooses for himself. That, my brethren, is the path to lasting peace. That way lies enlightenment."

 

[RangerWickett]

*clears throat quietly, takes a sip of water*

I do appreciate and encourage the debate over the Panarchists, the Pyre, and so on. Do feel free to carry on, but I'd recommend we not become self-recursive in our discussion. If for nothing else than to inject some fresh ideas into the conversation, would perhaps someone like to take the position of devil's advocate for one of the factions that has so far received less attention. I must say, it's disconcerting that no one has been willing to stand up and speak out in favor of destroying the world.

*sarcastic grin*

Anyway, carry on. And remember, if your opinion is swayed, you can change your vote. (Go up to the poll and select Unvote at the top right.)