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Legends & Lore: A Bit More on Feats

Which you can certainly do now if you want a simple game. But feats are currently meant to be a more "complex" option, so there's no reason why they can't be complex enough that Charop folks will create tables for themselves to maximize their potential.
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My point is that you can add complexity in other manners than a dynamic bonus to hit. +x to hit when you are in situation y is one of the most boring ideas* for a feat I can think of. I think complexity should be added by allowing you to do new things. For instance letting you attack once, then teleport a short distance and attack again.

(Not so important, but you will also inevitably end up with characters that are miles apart in to-hit bonus, just like in 4e were you can easily have a +10 disparity between optimized and slightly suboptimal. Mostly because the dynamic part of the to-hit bonus is removed through various other feats allowing you to have situation y 99% of the time. This just creates headaches for the DM and in my eyes it's bad design,)
 

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I think you can start with 15 from point buy, +2 from race, +1 from class, so 18. One stat buy and you are at the max, 20.

An interesting thing to note is that since you max out so quickly, and buying a 15 is expensive, it might be better for a "planned" character to start with 13 or 14 as the highest stat (before class/race) and rather have higher secondary stats. In other words, due to the 20 limit, optimizing might give us characters with lower stats. ;)

Since every stat also doubles as a saving throw, "optimizing" goes back to being "min/maxing", which used to mean "minimize weaknesses while maximizing efficiency".
 


Since every stat also doubles as a saving throw, "optimizing" goes back to being "min/maxing", which used to mean "minimize weaknesses while maximizing efficiency".
Optimizing and min/maxing is more or less synonyms, so you are basically just agreeing with me?
 

I generally like what they're doing, but I do have some concerns about the specifics:

* Getting +2 ability points four to six times seems excessive.

* These feats seem far better to me than even a +2 ability score.

* By grouping a lot of former feats into single feat packages, players have much less freedom in customizing their characters.

* Each feat is much more complicated than feats from past editions, having several different features to have to remember and keep track of. Also, with each feat being like three 3e feats in one, and with each character getting four to six feats, that means Next characters are going to end up with the equivalent of twelve to eighteen 3e feats.

* I hate Power Attack type abilities, but this one is particularly outrageous. A -5 to hit for DOUBLE damage? Are you kidding me?

* I thought we weren't going to have damage reduction in this system, having resistances instead. Yet, here we have damage reduction equal to Con mod. This is an absolutely terrible idea, IMO. It entirely destroys bounded accuracy. It doesn't matter if low level monsters can hit you if they can't do any damage!
 

* These feats seem far better to me than even a +2 ability score.
I'm not sure about that. +2 to a stat gives you +1 to hit and damage, +1 to skill checks with that stat, +1 to saves with that stat, possibly +1 benefit with various class features or feats that trigger off that stat.

And certain stats add additional benefits. If it's Dex, +1 to initiative. A single +2 to con at 20th level can add 20 more hp.
 

Ability score increase by level was hugely popular when it was introduced in 3E, and that hasn't changed. Furthermore, it's not something that can easily be made modular, because it has a big impact on character power. So I think it's more or less guaranteed that 5E will have level-based stat bumps by default.

What do you mean it's not easily made modular? It's super easy. In fact, in 3ed it was quite common to see groups change the basic rate of ability score increase, for example granting two +1s to two scores instead of one.

If you default the game to no ability score increase by level, adding them later is a piece of cake. "Modular on a group basis" is unbelievably simple in this case.

What is not a piece of cake, is allowing some players to get those stat bumps and other players get something else instead ("modular on an individual basis"), which is what they are trying too hard right now IMHO.

I don't know why you can't cherrypick feats to build a specialty that is now BIGGER than the specialty before. Mearls gives two feats, either of which could work as part of a specialty.

I meant, if their current design direction is to "merge" previous feats 3-by-3 or something similar, you have to take the whole package. You still probably get more than one package (i.e. the new mega-feats) in the course of 20 levels, so you still have some choice compared to choosing one specialty that defines all your feats. But at the same time it's less choice compared to before.

These sample feats are just sample, so they shouldn't be taken too seriously yet, but I think they set the idea. What if I was interested in getting heavy armor proficiency? Now I have to take a whole mega-feat that also gives me 2 additional abilities I'm not interested in.

Let's see what they do when they come to non-combat feats then. For instance, what if I want my Wizard to have a Familiar? Until now, I spend a feat and get a familiar. They can't combine this with other feats, it just makes no sense that to get a familiar I also get herbalism or something else unrelated. So it will have to be related, but how? Are they going to suddenly give me a giant-uber familiar, since it has to be worth 3 feats at once?

I like it. I'd rather get a few big bumps than panic over +1's. Life is short, give me the main course, don't fill me up on bread, I'm not here for bread.

If you mean fiddly bits are boring, I'm with you... but a mega-feat has to be worth 3 older feats, so it either gives you a single large bonus, or it gives you 3 times more fiddly bits, or 3 special actions. The first one might not be appropriate with bounded accuracy, the second is bread, the third means you have to take the whole package or nothing and IMHO it's not good to get 3 new special actions at one level and then no special actions in the next 8 levels.

Eh. That's one way to do it, but you lose the sense of character development and growth that is the core of the level system in D&D. It'd make the game easier to design for if there were no levels or XP, too, but those are valuable things.

As if there was no sense of character development prior to 3e (when there was no ability score increase by level)?
As if there is not enough sense of character development when you get class abilities by level, spell levels, skills, regular feats and possibly more?
Anyway, I suggested you can still have ability scores bumps with magic, and it's easy to rule the bumps by level back, if "sense of character development" is not enough.
What I am saying is that these ability score bumps are not only bloated by now but are also conditioning the design of other parts of the game that were fine.
 


This is my concern; what about simple weapon proficiencies and such.

It might be possible through Background Traits. They mentioned that proficiencies are Background options, and that PCs can expand upon their Backgrounds during play. That way it wouldn't even require anyhting but time and maybe money.
 

It might be possible through Background Traits. They mentioned that proficiencies are Background options, and that PCs can expand upon their Backgrounds during play. That way it wouldn't even require anyhting but time and maybe money.

Ah, interesting, a sort of organic approach.
 

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