Shadow Jump is breaking up friendships

[Turik2100]

So I'm in a group and one of the players is a Shadowdancer, I've had no problems with this class before. The player used his shadow jump ability but used it wrong. This play swears up and down that since shadows are made of darkness that he should be able to jump through anything that is in darkness. He also believes that the dark half of the earth (night time) is one big shadow, I've tried to explain to him multiple times what causes shadows but he returns to his shadows are darkness theory. The only real problem I have with this is that he believes that if its dark outside that he can just jump anywhere he pleases and thats his only limitation, but he still uses shadows correctly during the day. We have gotten to the point where another player has yelled at him that he is wrong and that he is generalizing things to make his point work in his favor. So I've come to you fine people to help settle this little argument before this player breaks up this group any further.

 

[S'mon]

Couldn't you just refer to a dictionary?

 

[JamesonCourage]

"All apples are fruit, therefore all fruit are apples." Doesn't make any sense, does it? Now try it with shadows and darkness. Just because all shadows are darkness, it doesn't mean all darkness is shadow. Obviously, Shadowdancer would only work if you jumped from "darkness to darkness", not "shadow to shadow" (as far as I know). See if that works.

Also, I don't know the personality of this player, but he might just be playing dumb to get more power, or he might honestly be mistaken. If he's just mistaken and holding to it, I'd be a lot more tolerant. I wouldn't let him abuse his abilities, but I'd be more understanding and patient during our discussions. As always, play what you like

 

[Paraxis]

You are the DM and so it is your call. I would probably rule the same as you he needs a shadow in the traditional sense.

But, since the the sun in casting light on the other side of the planet at night. The dark side of the planet is basically in one big shadow right next to the object [in this case a planet] that is casting the shadow but still a shadow. Now the problem with that is he needs a different shadow for a destination so still couldn't just teleport at will.

 

[MarkB]

Place a big, 20-foot-wide sphere on the ground at, say, 9am in sunlight in your game-world. Is the unlit side of that sphere in shadow?

If so, then technically he's correct - he's simply scaled that scene up.

However, that doesn't avail your player in the slightest. The Shadow Jump ability clearly states that it allows a character to travel between shadows. If the dark side of the planet is one big shadow, then you could jump into it and emerge into a shadow within a daylit area that's up to 20 feet away (difficult, given that the world's shadow attenuates gradually across hundreds of feet even in the most direct sunlight), but you could not jump to another location within that shadow, because that wouldn't be travelling between shadows.

EDIT: Ninja'd by [MENTION=13009]Paraxis[/MENTION]

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Shadow Jump (Su): At 4th level, a shadowdancer gains the ability to travel between shadows as if by means of a dimension door spell. The limitation is that the magical transport must begin and end in an area with at least some shadow. A shadowdancer can jump up to a total of 20 feet each day in this way; this may be a single jump of 20 feet or two jumps of 10 feet each. Every two levels higher than 4th, the distance a shadowdancer can jump each day doubles (40 feet at 6th, 80 feet at 8th, and 160 feet at 10th). This amount can be split among many jumps, but each one, no matter how small, counts as a 10-foot increment.

Dimension Door: You instantly transfer yourself from your current location to any other spot within range. You always arrive at exactly the spot desired—whether by simply visualizing the area or by stating direction. After using this spell, you can’t take any other actions until your next turn. You can bring along objects as long as their weight doesn't exceed your maximum load. You may also bring one additional willing Medium or smaller creature (carrying gear or objects up to its maximum load) or its equivalent per three caster levels. A Large creature counts as two Medium creatures, a Huge creature counts as two Large creatures, and so forth. All creatures to be transported must be in contact with one another, and at least one of those creatures must be in contact with you.

If you arrive in a place that is already occupied by a solid body, you and each creature traveling with you take 1d6 points of damage and are shunted to a random open space on a suitable surface within 100 feet of the intended location.

If there is no free space within 100 feet, you and each creature traveling with you take an additional 2d6 points of damage and are shunted to a free space within 1,000 feet. If there is no free space within 1,000 feet, you and each creature travelling with you take an additional 4d6 points of damage and the spell simply fails.

Even taking your player's interpretation of the ability, what's the problem? His character can dimension door for a cumulative distance of 160 feet per day (at 15th level minimum). It's not a game-breaking ability, and don't forget that after a shadow jump, the character can't take other actions until his next turn. The character's schtick is that he's mobile.

AR

 

[Greenfield]

You could go philosophical on him: "There is no good without evil, just as there is no darkness without light. You dance at the edge of these things, where darkness and light come together: That is, after all, what makes a shadow.".

In short, emphasize that a "shadow" is different from "shadowy illumination" as cast by a Darkness spell, or as required for a Shadow Walk spell. It isn't the mere absence of light, but the interplay of liht and darkness that fools the eye and the mind.

When he argues (because he will), show him Rule Zero in the book. Then suggest that he get some alchemical flash/smoke bombs. They will provide the shadow he needs in daylight, and the flash of the detonation will provide the instant of light he requires at night, or indoors. And let's admit it, "Poof-Gone" is cool!

<Edit> I was just scanning the SRD for some definition to help you, and I came across an Artifact called the Shadowstaff. Neat bonuses in most conditions, but gives a penalty to attcks, saves and skill checks when in bright daylight or total darkness. That kind of implies that shadow needs some of each.

 

[n00bdragon]

snip

I gotta agree with this. Why is this an issue. We're talking a character who in very very high levels can basically teleport anywhere he wants in areas of darkness up to 160 feet per day. Why not just let him have his toy? At this level of the game casters are tossing around 8th level spells and have dozens of slots per day. Here you have a guy who has decided to invest himself in a decidedly underpowered class and by insisting that general darkness does not count as a "shadow" you're taking his one trick pony and making it a no trick pony.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

I agree with the player. As the ability says, "The limitation is that the magical transport must begin and end in an area with at least some shadow." That implies it's not the shadow of something but rather the dark of semi-darkness or darkness. Further, as Altamont Ravenard points out, he can't do anything after a shadow jump: his turn ends.

And let's face it: this is probably a sub-optimal base class (rogue) with a sub-optimal prestige class (shadowdancer). Let the poor bastard enjoy the one feature of this build that he finds worthwhile.

 

[Empirate]

This could be argued either way with good reasons, as the thread has shown so far. However, why is this really an issue? Is it a question of principle (never a good idea in a game based on friendship)? Or a question of balance (as others have already pointed out, the ability is fairly weak and shouldn't be considered a problem at all)? Or a question of personal issues (such as you suspecting the player of powergaming)?

NONE of those ought to be an issue at all. In all honesty, just drop the question, make a definitive ruling, and live with that, is what you should do. This isn't worth arguing or even ruining friendships (!!) over.