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Shadow Jump is breaking up friendships
- Thread starter Turik2100
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Abraxas
Explorer
That's one definition, but not the only one - shadow is also the area behind the object blocking the light (as in that area is in shadow).
GX.Sigma
Adventurer
If I am standing around at night, I am in darkness, because an object is blocking my line-of-sight to the sun. How is that not the literal definition of shadow?
Really, it's pointless debating this. There is no useful dictionary definition of "shadow," since darkness is relative, and it's all relative to the light source anyway. I can light a torch and hold it behind my back to create a really big shadow whenever I want.
If you define a shadow as a region of lower relative illumination than a nearby region (e.g., if there's a region B within 5 meters that is brighter by at least 50x the lumens of region A, then region A is a shadow), that might be useful.
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Thanks for suggestions, so let me give you a little background on these guys to better understand the argument. The shadowdancer player is a min/max person and he is horrible at rping, while the other player is a flavor person and loves rping. So while I understand the ability description is left vague on purpose, I understand both sides and I'm having trouble making a judgement call. The fact these two are arguing isn't that uncommon. At this point I don't really care but with my players taking sides I might need to make a choice.
Empirate
First Post
Well, just make a call and stick it out. That's really all you can do. Your job here is not to find the objective truth and preach it to your group, but to ensure the harmony of your game and group isn't broken up too much by a minor problem. The earlier this "issue" is off the table, the better. The thread has provided multiple arguments you can make use of to explain your call. In the future, make sure to get people talking in a constructive way, onstead of outright arguing, in rules interpretation issues.
Greenfield
Adventurer
You're looking for a definitive answer? Look up the definition:
<Edit> Hmm. The post left off everything I wrote after the quote.
Lines 1 and 2 seem to be the operative ones, with Line 2 being the most applicable.
Both suggest that mere lack of light isn't enough. It's the interplay of light and darkness. In simple fact, the human eye can adapt to a very dim level of light. But that same dimness that you could see in, if you took time for your eyes to adjust, becomes a confusing or even impenetrable cloak when it's right next to a lit area. Your eyes can't be adjusted to both.
The beauty of this answer isn't simply that it backs up the DM. What makes it so good is that it's authoritative, inarguable. Someone can debate the rule book, disagree with another player's interpretation, or even argue with the DM. Arguing with a Dictionary is kind of pointless (though sadly I've known people willing to take on the task.)
So, according to the dictionary, night isn't shadow. Neither is the inside of a dark building or an underground cavern. Shadow is the area of *relative* darkness in an otherwise lit area.
World English Dictionary said:
<Edit> Hmm. The post left off everything I wrote after the quote.
Lines 1 and 2 seem to be the operative ones, with Line 2 being the most applicable.
Both suggest that mere lack of light isn't enough. It's the interplay of light and darkness. In simple fact, the human eye can adapt to a very dim level of light. But that same dimness that you could see in, if you took time for your eyes to adjust, becomes a confusing or even impenetrable cloak when it's right next to a lit area. Your eyes can't be adjusted to both.
The beauty of this answer isn't simply that it backs up the DM. What makes it so good is that it's authoritative, inarguable. Someone can debate the rule book, disagree with another player's interpretation, or even argue with the DM. Arguing with a Dictionary is kind of pointless (though sadly I've known people willing to take on the task.)
So, according to the dictionary, night isn't shadow. Neither is the inside of a dark building or an underground cavern. Shadow is the area of *relative* darkness in an otherwise lit area.
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Dandu
First Post
The Miranda warning, also referred to as Miranda rights, is a warning given by police in the United States to criminal suspects in police custody (or in a custodial interrogation) before they are interrogated to preserve the admissibility of their statements against them in criminal proceedings.
Miranda himself was a scumbag.
Mechanically, it is not overpowered. Whether you think it is appropriate is very much up to your discretion. I would personally allow it as the Shadow Dancer is weak enough as is.
doghead
thotd
He might be all about min/maxing but the shadowdancer is a very under powered option. I don't think even using a very liberal interpretation of the ability will break your game in anyway.
But I guess the important part isn't the ability, it is the argument itself. I think a couple beers and watching some Monty Python together is probably the correct solution to the issue.
Nezkrul
First Post
Lets say at 10th level Shadow Dancer you can use the ability for unlimited distance per day; even then the ability is no where near over powered, just useful (dimension door still has a maximum range, it isn't teleport - which is what he is thinking it is) Show him the dimension door spell, show him it has a maximum range no matter how high level the caster is. Let it sink in, since the ability CLEARLY calls out it uses dimension door as the "base".
Other than that, more than 1 level of Shadowdancer is more for flavor and rping than just dipping for HIPS. I'm surprised you aren't on here complaining about him walking around as the invisible man.
Other than that, more than 1 level of Shadowdancer is more for flavor and rping than just dipping for HIPS. I'm surprised you aren't on here complaining about him walking around as the invisible man.
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