D&D 5E What about warlocks and sorcerers?

[Warbringer]

I'm not an especially big fan of the Vancian mage. I was just trying to make the more narrow point that getting a 1st and a 2nd level spell at-will is useful for non-Vancian casters too.

Sorry, missed that; yes it is. The initial idea was introduced in 3.5, called reserve feats; if you have a spell available (say fireball) you could at-will cast a spell (like 2d6 damage) ... in 5e, way too late.

I love at will magic, an 6 years into my homebrew its been an option (been using the concept of at-will, 3/day and 1/day first introduced in 1e in monsters)

 

[variant]

best case a sorcerer sub class
worst case a mage sub class

I am not sure that is a best-worst case scenario. The Mage is spellcasting system neutral and has a lot more room different classes where-as we don't know if the sorcerer would be the same way.

If you look at the 3e Warlock, it is a very simple class. It doesn't need a spell slot chart when it's procurement of invocations could technically be written out in a single line or paragraph. The invocations of the 3e Warlock are listed with just the name and how that invocation modifies either Eldritch Blast or a wizard spell.

My main hope is that the 5e Warlock will harken back to the 3e Warlock's at-will invocations with some of the Pacts and flavor returning from 4e. I would like to see Pacts expanded and the Far Realms references removed from the Star pact.

 

[Warbringer]

I am not sure that is a best-worst case scenario. The mage is spellcasting system neutral and has a lot more room different classes where-as we don't know if the sorcerer would be the same way.

If you look at the 3e warlock, it is a very simple class. It doesn't need a spell slot chart when it's procurement of invocations could technically be written out in a single line or paragraph. The invocations of the 3e warlock are listed with just the name and how that invocation modifies either Eldritch Blast or a wizard spell.

My main hope is that the 5e warlock will harken back to the 3e warlock's at-will invocations with some of the Pacts and flavor returning from 4e.

At which point it is not a Mage variant, which is preparation with at will limited to cantrips

 

[variant]

At which point it is not a Mage variant, which is preparation with at will limited to cantrips

There is no spellcasting system in the general Mage class. The spellbook, spells per day, spell preperation, cantrips, Intelligence used for magic, and everything else is listed under Wizardry.

 

[MoonSong]

There is no spellcasting system in the general Mage class. The spellbook, spells per day, spell preperation, cantrips, Intelligence used for magic, and everything else is listed under Wizardry.

not quite, spells per day are set at class level, and the finishing feature heavily assumes spell preparation. Even if somewhat castig system agnostic, it isn't really flavor neutral.

 

[variant]

not quite, spells per day are set at class level, and the finishing feature heavily assumes spell preparation. Even if somewhat castig system agnostic, it isn't really flavor neutral.

You are wrong. 'Spell Preparation' is under 'Spells per Day' which is under 'Wizardry'. Read it for yourself. I have no idea what you are talking about when you say "finishing feature".

 

[MoonSong]

You are wrong. 'Spell Preparation' is under 'Spells per Day' which is under 'Wizardry'. Read it for yourself. I have no idea what you are talking about when you say "finishing feature".

yes Wizardry says "spells per day", but their actual number is listed in the table under "spells per day"; so this is hard coded at class level, change wizardry for all sorceries and witchcrafts you fancy, they will have slots per day and their number is set by the class, no escaping it. (I wanted to say Capstone feature, but couldn't remember the word, check Spell Mastery )

 

[tuxgeo]

< snip >
My main hope is that the 5e Warlock will harken back to the 3e Warlock's at-will invocations with some of the Pacts and flavor returning from 4e. I would like to see Pacts expanded and the Far Realms references removed from the Star pact.

If they're to design the Warlock starting from the 4E options, it would be easier to remove the word "Star" from the name of the pact, and to leave the mechanics as pure Far Realms, which they certainly are.

Those mysterious Far Realms entities have nothing to do with any actual stars, so the sooner we recognize that fact and call that pact the "Horror Pact" the better, In My Hungle* Opinion.

*shaddup, spell check! "Hungle" is so a word!

 

[variant]

If they're to design the Warlock starting from the 4E options, it would be easier to remove the word "Star" from the name of the pact, and to leave the mechanics as pure Far Realms, which they certainly are.

Those mysterious Far Realms entities have nothing to do with any actual stars, so the sooner we recognize that fact and call that pact the "Horror Pact" the better, In My Hungle* Opinion.

*shaddup, spell check! "Hungle" is so a word!

I actually think the opposite is true. A lot of the Warlock powers in 4E are themed after stars or starlight. Dire Radiance as an example which causes star light to lance down and hit the target. I really like the flavor of this Pact, I just didn't like its connection the to Far Realms. The Far Realms is something that not every DM wants and I think having something connected to it in the PHB is a bad idea.

 

[Warbringer]

There is no spellcasting system in the general Mage class. The spellbook, spells per day, spell preperation, cantrips, Intelligence used for magic, and everything else is listed under Wizardry.

Late getting back, sorry.

True, but the "spells per day" and "cantrips" are structural features of the class table; deviations from that is essentially a new class, or should be. To design around that is IMO convoluted for a class base system.