D&D 4E Which 4E adventures did you play?

[jacktannery]

Thanks for the quick answer. Do you happen to have an example that would apply to a monster found in P1 ? I started to look but couldn't find anything for now.

All the monsters from P1 have been updated to MM3 (ie latest errata) stats by Myrhdraak in his P1 conversion guide - here http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19921178/H1-H3:_Demon_Prince_of_Undeath_Conversion

Ditto all the H1-3 P1-3 E1-3 adventures.

 

[Quickleaf]

Overall, the most important areas are understanding why and how to pressure/ablate the group's healing surges and the diffrence between across board dailies and the adjustment of strategic dailies to tactical dailies. Ritual Casting accounting/pressuring can be heavily involved as well as this is the PC's extra-scene, strategic resource that is the analog for old-school Dailies (with stepped down potency in most cases).

That is a golden bit of advice!

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

(snip) It is clear to me that some writers understood how to make the system work out. Chris Sims did it with his D&D Encounters Season of Keep on the Borderlands, and the format for D&D Encounters can be viewed as extremely "inflexible." Chris Perkins did it with his adaptations of the Against the Giants Series. Steve Townshend did it with both Madness at Gardmore Abbey, and his D&D Encounters Season Beyond the Crystal Cave, co-written with Chris Sims.

So I understand editorial mandates, I just don't understand the logical leap to blame the system.

I have converted and run I6-Ravenloft, A1-A4-Slavers Series, U1-Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh, some sections of B2-Keep on the Borderlands (the Caves of Chaos), X1-Isle of Dread, and countless other TSR and Paizo adventures for use with 4e. I have not changed the structure of the adventures. I've used the tools provided in the game and tweaked to taste. (snip)

I think the real shame is that the writers are hiding behind the "game system" made me do it excuse when obviously others made some really good adventures with the same system, and even under stricter "inflexibility" (D&D Encounters).

As per Quickleaf's post - quoted next - I've found that 4E runs a lot like 1E did in our teenage years except for the fact that the rules actually make sense as written.

And, yeah, hiding behind the system and blaming it for the manifold faults in published adventures is more a case of blokes who don't like the system and didn't take the time to master it then turning around and writing sub-standard products.

The guys who clearly like or liked the system - Chris Perkins, => Rich Baker <=, Chris Sims, Dave Noonan et al - punched out some really good stuff. They still do. There have been some real gems in the recent Dungeon adventures and in D&D Encounters... until Murder in Baldur's Gate came along (IMO/YMMV).

I've been wondering how true this is or not. My buddy ran his own conversion of B2-Keep on the Borderland (and Caves of Chaos) in 4e and it felt almost like we were playing first edition! (snip)

That's been our experience as well.

Like D'karr, a lot of my stuff has come from conversions of 1E and 2E adventures. To me, 4E feels a lot like that but with a ruleset that actually makes sense as written. And it's really easy to improvise for.

In relation to MerricB's original question, we've played none of the published adventures but there are bits of most of them sprinkled through our campaign and Reavers of Harkenwold is basically the backbone of our next campaign with the Zhentarim replacing the Iron Ring.

 

[Starfox]

As per Quickleaf's post - quoted next - I've found that 4E runs a lot like 1E did in our teenage years except for the fact that the rules actually make sense as written.

I think 1E could be played in many, many ways. So can 4E. My main memory of 1E was that it was lethal and swingy. You had to know when to retreat, and you retreated often. Not at all my experience with 4E.

 

[Manbearcat]

I think 1E could be played in many, many ways. So can 4E. My main memory of 1E was that it was lethal and swingy. You had to know when to retreat, and you retreated often. Not at all my experience with 4E.

You can get that experience (as D'Karr, Quickleaf, Scrivener of Doom have talked about above). Pressure your PCs' Healing Surges enough, enforce that they cannot get an Extended Rest until they pass a Skill Challenge to do so (where losses accrued equal a random encounter or they take HP damage because their surge-pool is at 0), surround them by threats (traps, hazards, guerrilla-warfare minion squads) or engage them with something ominous (such as an n + 2 or above combat)...and the game turns extraordinarily lethal and players start to approach the next corner, the next door with old-school caution and paranoia.

 

[Manbearcat]

@D'karr Can't xp, but great post 41.

 

[keterys]

It's not as easy to replicate the "This combat is ridiculously easy, but that's okay because the 4 damage isn't getting healed easily" aspect, but you can definitely have a lot more lethality in 4e than you'd expect. For example, let's say in the Caves of Chaos (4e) your 1st level group pokes its head in a cave and sees an Ogre (6th level) with a Bear (5th level). If the PCs don't stealth ambush or trick or run, that Ogre is going to potentially drop someone for 4d10+4 (miss half) and the bear will make two attacks for 2d8+7 _each_, and fair chance if the party doesn't rescue someone hit by both their head is bitten clean off at start of next round.

And that's an xp-appropriate not-at-all-difficult encounter for a group of 1st level PCs. If you wanted it difficult, toss another ogre on the pile. Still not as lethal as 1e could be - though also less likely for the monsters to not accomplish anything at all (more towards the center of the range), but also not the wet noodle a lot of people associate with 4e either. Shame all that math got fumbled in 4e right before it hit the presses.

 

[D'karr]

You can get that experience (as D'Karr, Quickleaf, Scrivener of Doom have talked about above). Pressure your PCs' Healing Surges enough, enforce that they cannot get an Extended Rest until they pass a Skill Challenge to do so (where losses accrued equal a random encounter or they take HP damage because their surge-pool is at 0), surround them by threats (traps, hazards, guerrilla-warfare minion squads) or engage them with something ominous (such as an n + 2 or above combat)...and the game turns extraordinarily lethal and players start to approach the next corner, the next door with old-school caution and paranoia.

These "tips" are spot on. To get the old-school paranoia going you need to tweak the pressure in different places. HP attrition in a combat is not really what does that. Losing Healing Surges, getting diseases that impair capabilities, traps that do a lot of damage and are difficult to disable/destroy, waves of monsters that don't make it easy to take short rests, no easy extended rests, etc. These can all be used in good measure to contribute to that desperate feeling.

When you use all of these as well as easy/standard/difficult/overwhelming encounters (non-combat, and combat) you have adventure pacing tools that let you hit awesome strides in different places. You can turn on the "paranoia" when it's appropriate/necessary, and you can still have the base capabilities of 4e which give you the possibility of the "awesome comeback when the chips are down."

 

[NewJeffCT]

Thanks for the quick answer. Do you happen to have an example that would apply to a monster found in P1 ? I started to look but couldn't find anything for now.

When I first ran a 4E practice adventure, I was disappointed with a solo I ran - Sinruth, the hobgoblin chieftain, a level 2 solo from early 4E days. A level 2 solo soldier with 185 hit points. However, his attack powers did next to nothing - he had two at-wills, one did 1d10+4 and the other did 1d6+4 and knocked you prone. He also had a minor that allowed him to stomp a prone target for another huge 1d6+4. That's pathetic against a 1st level party where the PCs each have 20 or more hit points. His big recharge power was a burst 1 that also did 1d6+4 damage. That was an extremely boring combat - lots of small damage dished out by level 1 PCs slowly wearing down the hobgoblin, who had no chance of killing the PCs.

From the later Monster Vault, the level 1 solo brute Fledgling White Dragon, does 1d12+11 on a hit for one at-will. It can also target two foes with its claw attacks for 1d12+4 damage with its other at-will. It could easily take out a first level PC with two claw attacks on it, hitting for potentially up to 30 damage. When bloodied, it also crits on a 17-20, or every 5 attacks. And, unlike the hobgoblin, its recharge power can still damage on a miss (2d8+4 on a close burst 5 hit, half on a miss, and auto-recharges when bloodied)

 

[Starfox]

You can get that experience (as D'Karr, Quickleaf, Scrivener of Doom have talked about above). Pressure your PCs' Healing Surges enough, enforce that they cannot get an Extended Rest until they pass a Skill Challenge to do so (where losses accrued equal a random encounter or they take HP damage because their surge-pool is at 0), surround them by threats (traps, hazards, guerrilla-warfare minion squads) or engage them with something ominous (such as an n + 2 or above combat)...and the game turns extraordinarily lethal and players start to approach the next corner, the next door with old-school caution and paranoia.

This is not how 1E was to us either. We just had a lot of 15 minute adventuring days back then. That's what I meant by retreating often. "Old School" is different to different people, I never played "ing fantasy Vietnam", nor did I ever want to.