D&D 5E (2014) New D&D Next Playtest package is up (19/9/2013) [merged threads]

[Szatany]

On multiclassing: Why does multiclassing require ability scores, but singleclassing doesn't?

 

[TrippyHippy]

On multiclassing: Why does multiclassing require ability scores, but singleclassing doesn't?

It's a sort of deterrent against excessive multi-classing. You can only multi-class into another Class if you are potentially really good at their role. Having said that, multi-class Cleric/Druids might become quite common.

 

[Derren]

Half Orc advantage on Intimidate
This situational bonus could be coming from orcs having a nasty reputation. It's easier to play on people's fears when you are their Big Bad Wolf

As you said, highly situational and also depends on the setting.
Orcs do not automatically need to have a nasty reputation and it also requires the target to know and care about it.
Half orc getting an intimidation bonuse when intimidating a full or other half orc? Or an Ogre or worse?

Too situational for a racial bonus.

 

[Szatany]

It's a sort of deterrent against excessive multi-classing. You can only multi-class into another Class if you are potentially really good at their role. Having said that, multi-class Cleric/Druids might become quite common.

I understand why it was implemented from a designer's perspective. Unfortunately it makes little sense from a simulationist point of view (which is important to me, but I'm not fanatical about it). You can be a fighter 1 with STR 6, but you must have STR 15 to be cleric 1/fighter 1. Something is wrong with this setup.

I'd rather have it that if you don't meet prerequisite you still can take the class but you don't get proficiencies or something.

 

[Szatany]

As you said, highly situational and also depends on the setting.
Orcs do not automatically need to have a nasty reputation and it also requires the target to know and care about it.
Half orc getting an intimidation bonuse when intimidating a full or other half orc? Or an Ogre or worse?

Too situational for a racial bonus.

As I posted in another thread, leave advantage mechanic for situational...situations. Replace abilities of all races with proficiency instead. So half orcs are proficient with intimidate, and if situation warrants, they also get advantage on the check.

 

[Derren]

As I posted in another thread, leave advantage mechanic for situational...situations. Replace abilities of all races with proficiency instead. So half orcs are proficient with intimidate, and if situation warrants, they also get advantage on the check.

That still doesn't explain why half orcs are somehow better at or in your case more proficient with intimidation than other races (even full orcs). Unless half orcs are now suddenly all minor psychics with a weaker version of the dragons fear aura there is no reason for this. Even when you subscribe to big & strong = intimidating what imo has driven the designers to create this bonus in the first place (+ all the whiners in 3E who complained why their barbarians with cha as dumpstats are not intimidating) it doesn't automatically mean that every half orc would benefit from it, namely the small and weak ones.

 

[Szatany]

That still doesn't explain why half orcs are somehow better at or in your case more proficient with intimidation than other races (even full orcs).

No idea. I was focusing on how to best represent them being good at intimidation, not if they should be good at it.

 

[TrippyHippy]

I understand why it was implemented from a designer's perspective. Unfortunately it makes little sense from a simulationist point of view (which is important to me, but I'm not fanatical about it). You can be a fighter 1 with STR 6, but you must have STR 15 to be cleric 1/fighter 1. Something is wrong with this setup.

I'd rather have it that if you don't meet prerequisite you still can take the class but you don't get proficiencies or something.

I'm not so sure. From a simulationist point of view, you could suppose that people may end up in the wrong Class and develop into a true calling later on.

 

[Cyberen]

The argument of Orcs not having a bad reputation is moot in core D&D (of course, specific settings should overwrite this as needed).
And I can definitely picture Half-Orcs emitting feral growls backing up their threats, adding up to the "don't mess with me" vibe of Intimidating.
And "proficiency" shouldn't be taken too literally. It's a keyword for things you are good at and will keep getting better at with levelling up. For racial stuff, it could mean that you become more and more elfy/dwarfy/orky woth experience...

 

[Li Shenron]

As I posted in another thread, leave advantage mechanic for situational...situations. Replace abilities of all races with proficiency instead. So half orcs are proficient with intimidate, and if situation warrants, they also get advantage on the check.

IMO the rational of the current design choice is that it avoids overlapping, because advantage and proficiency fully "stack".

Advantage increases your chances at succeeding at something you can already do.

Proficiency increases your changes at individual tasks but also raise both you minimum and maximum results, which means you don't need to roll anymore for the lowest DC and you can reach high DC that you wouldn't if not proficient. This is in general more valuable, also because advantage can be cancelled and it can be moot if you find another source of advantage, while proficiency bonus always stack.

So maybe their first try is to let Races deliver advantage and classes deliver proficiency. That's only for skills and saving throws.

For weapons it's different, in that case both races and classes grant weapon proficiencies, and we have a nice rule that if you get the same twice, you can pick a different one instead. Still, they probably think that advantage on attacks is more valuable than advantage on skills and so they don't want to give permanent advantage with a weapon.

Applying that "pick another" rule to skills and saving throws would of course be another valid possibility, tho they'd need to provide some guidelines on how to handle advantage on narrower cases like advantage on ST vs poisons.

But with the current setup, you only have weapon prof overlaps, the rest doesn't overlap but both things are useful. This leaves the option for your Half-Orc to also get proficiency in Intimidation and be better than any non-HalfOrc, or just be content with advantage.

I liked when they did this to Knowledge skills a few packets ago: being a Cleric granted advantage on Religion checks, which made you more reliable on low-mid DCs but didn't open up advanced knowledge, which you could choose to pick as a skill or not. But then apparently playtesters didn't like this, so it's very much possible that they'll change Races in the same way like you want to.