Legends & Lore: Clas Groups

[Herschel]

Side note:

Then, for the love of Pelor, just call them Experts. Wouldn't that be easier?

.

"Experts" is an even dumber name. Wizards are kind of "experts" at their chosen craft, no? And Fighters would be rather more learned in a larger group of weapons, and........

 

[Wicht]

But, again, it doesn't necessarily work that way, and none of your language until now left any room for it to work any way other than what you had previously described. If you agreed with me all along it might not work that way, it would have been helpful for you to have said something earlier?

Hrm...

Eh, I was ambivalent about 5e, but this idea of having "group" specific magic items leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I hope they don't do it, but if they do, its a major turn off. I would much rather prefer skill set related magic items. There's no reason a fighter, wizard, cleric or rogue shouldn't all be able to use Boots of Stealth, and there is no reason a wizard, picking up a magic sword, shouldn't be able to stab somebody with it. Granted, if an item requires divine or arcane magic, then it seems only natural that a wizard or cleric would get far more use out of it; but then again, a skilled fighter is going to get a lot more mileage out of the magic sword.

Emphasis added.

Anyway. Apology accepted and thank you for taking me at my word.

 

[DMZ2112]

"Experts" is an even dumber name. Wizards are kind of "experts" at their chosen craft, no? And Fighters would be rather more learned in a larger group of weapons, and........

I'm fond of the name "Depicklers." Because they get the party out of pickles.

 

[Herschel]

Fan cleaners.

 

[Wicht]

I'm fond of the name "Depicklers." Because they get the party out of pickles.

Yeah but that gets confusing when you start fighting undead deep-pickles and their mini-onion-minions.

 

[Mistwell]

Thinking about it, I think I like magic items that work...

...for everyone
...for people of a certain race
...for people of a certain alignment
...for people with a certain ability (e.g. "spellcasting" or "arcane spellcasting" or "use magic device")
...for people of a certain "level" (perhaps... I'm a bit uncertain about this...)
...for people of a certain faith or religion
...for people at random
...for one person only

But oddly enough, magic items that work for people of a certain class or group of classes don't sound that good to me.

Members of some classes tend to be better at certain types of activities than members of other classes. So for example:

Rogue classes tend to be better at stealth than others.
Mage classes tend to be better at arcane magic than others.
Cleric classes tend to be better at receiving divine aid than others.
Fighter classes tend to be better at the use of unusual melee weapons than others.

Having magic items which work better for those who are better at doing the sorts of things those items help with, makes sense to me.

So for example:

"Elvish Boots: When worn, rogues gain expertise in Dex (move silent) checks, others gain skill proficiency in such checks."
"Wand of Eldritch Rays: Fires a ray of energy at a target within 25', doing 1d6 damage, or 2d6 if fired by a Mage."
"Rod of Healing: This rod heals 1d6 hit points of damage to a target within 25", or 2d6 damage if used by a Cleric."
"Staggering Maul +1: This Maul deals 2d6+1 bludgeoning damage. Targets struck must succeed on a DC15 Constitution save or else are Restrained for 1 round. Fighters wielding this weapon may choose to Stun targets rather than restrain them."

In all of these examples, the item is usable by anyone, but it works better if used by a particular class which is naturally better at the sorts of things that item does.

 

[Mistwell]

Hrm...



Emphasis added.

Anyway. Apology accepted and thank you for taking me at my word.

My bad, I didn't see that you wrote that earlier. Sorry about that.

For what it is worth, I prefer "Items work better in the hands of a particular class" instead of "item only works in the hands of a particular class".

 

[Wicht]

My bad, I didn't see that you wrote that earlier. Sorry about that.

For what it is worth, I prefer "Items work better in the hands of a particular class" instead of "item only works in the hands of a particular class".

That is itself a superior design mechanic, I would agree.

 

[Remathilis]

Members of some classes tend to be better at certain types of activities than members of other classes. So for example:

Rogue classes tend to be better at stealth than others.
Mage classes tend to be better at arcane magic than others.
Cleric classes tend to be better at receiving divine aid than others.
Fighter classes tend to be better at the use of unusual melee weapons than others.

Having magic items which work better for those who are better at doing the sorts of things those items help with, makes sense to me.

So for example:

"Elvish Boots: When worn, rogues gain expertise in Dex (move silent) checks, others gain skill proficiency in such checks."
"Wand of Eldritch Rays: Fires a ray of energy at a target within 25', doing 1d6 damage, or 2d6 if fired by a Mage."
"Rod of Healing: This rod heals 1d6 hit points of damage to a target within 25", or 2d6 damage if used by a Cleric."
"Staggering Maul +1: This Maul deals 2d6+1 bludgeoning damage. Targets struck must succeed on a DC15 Constitution save or else are Restrained for 1 round. Fighters wielding this weapon may choose to Stun targets rather than restrain them."

In all of these examples, the item is usable by anyone, but it works better if used by a particular class which is naturally better at the sorts of things that item does.

This is a great way to do it.

For example, 2nd edition Strength spell upped your strength score based on your group. Warriors got 1d8, Rogues and Priests 1d6, Wizards 1d4. The 2nd edition version of Cat's Grace did the same thing with dexterity (Rogues 1d8, Warrior/Wizard 1d6, Priest 1d4). You could cast them on the weaker classes (wizards for strength, for example) but it was much more beneficial to cast it on warriors.

Likewise, a potion of heroism gave warriors +4 effective levels of warrior. If you weren't a warrior, your stats matched that OF a 4th level warrior (and if you were better, such as a better thac0, you gained no benefit). So it was always better to give one to a fighter rather than to the wizard unless you wanted one as a last-ditch measure.

That's the advantage; giving class specific items rewards those classes. Sure, a thief could use a wand of magic missiles in 2e, but he had to roll an attack roll while a wizard did not. It makes sense to give it to the wizard. I don't want a lot of these, but a few items that reward warriors or tricksters that have limited use to priests or mages (and vice versa) I think is a good thing.

 

[JamesonCourage]

.

"Experts" is an even dumber name. Wizards are kind of "experts" at their chosen craft, no? And Fighters would be rather more learned in a larger group of weapons, and........

I so, so disagree. "Tricksters" are people who trick people. "Experts" are experts at something. The former is obviously not what these people always are. The latter is. Go Expert over Trickster.