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D&D 5E My #1 hope for D&D Next

delericho

Legend
Sadly I think this will likely be a case of past performance being an indicator for future behavior. If they were any good at it, wouldn't they be doing it already?

The thing about creative endeavours is that they're all about getting the right people in place and letting them work. Pixar don't make good movies because there's something magical about the name "Pixar"; they make good movies because they have assembled (or developed) a team of creative people, and they let them do their thing.

Of course, corporate environment is a factor, but only as a negative - a bad environment can prevent the 'right' people from doing good work; but a good environment can't turn the 'wrong' people into world-beaters. (Of course, now that I'd said that, no doubt several people will reply with dozens of counter-examples...)

The good news is that being part of a large company doesn't automatically mean you have a bad environment - note that when Disney bought Pixar they took the wise step of not imposing their culture. (In fact, the opposite - they got the Pixar guys to take over at their in-house animation studio, which resulted in "Wreck-it Ralph", a step up on their previous offerings). And, of course, we know how Disney buying Marvel somehow didn't destroy "The Avengers".

So...

There are good adventure writers out there, both 'known' and 'unknown'. All WotC need to do is find them, hire them, and let them work. (Easier said than done, of course.)

I'm not sure what on earth was wrong over there during the 4E period.

They've never been very good at adventures. For 3e they had a few good ones ("Sunless Citadel", "Forge of Fury", "The Sinister Spire"), some that were okay or salvageable, and a significant amount of dross. Much of the best stuff was in Dungeon, but that team was largely lost to Paizo when they gave up the magazines. And the best-regarded adventure of all ("Red Hand of Doom") was done by guys who worked for Paizo - now the big competition.

I have to conclude it was simply a combination of top-down cultural malaise, lack of time and manpower, and a general view that their resources were better and more profitably spent elsewhere.

Right now Vault of the Dracolich shows that a spirit of innovation and experimentation is alive and well at Wizards towers. Let's hope it survives the transition to a published 5E that has to start bringing in the cash.

I was truly saddened by the utter failure of the Delve Format for adventures. Back when it was first discussed (in the then-"Design & Development" column), it was evident that WotC had people who were genuinely putting a lot of thought and effort into how to make, not just new adventures, but better adventures. And Dave Noonan was right - for a particular use, the Delve Format was extremely useful (that is, for the DM who wants to run without any time to prepare).

Of course, for general use, the Delve Format had some very significant, and well-discussed, issues. And, by mandating its use for all adventures all the time, WotC found themselves locked in to producing soulless railroads.

Unfortunately, I fear the consequence of that one, big, failed experiment is that they'll be less inclined to take risks in future. They'll find a couple of things that work (or worked in 1st Ed), and duplicate those endlessly. But, as we well know, endless clones of the same thing never work too well.

I hope I'm wrong about that, I really do. I would very much like to see 5e be supported by a stream of really good adventures, and for those adventures to be new, innovative, and executed well. But you'll forgive me if I don't hold my breath.
 

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I share your wish -- adventures are my favorite product. Sadly WotC's track record in this regard is poor. They have sold some nice looking products with colorful maps and interesting artwork, but when the underlying adventure design is poor, it doesn't save them. "Soulless railroads", indeed.

Though for the record, I hated the Delve format.
 

MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Supporter
And the best-regarded adventure of all ("Red Hand of Doom") was done by guys who worked for Paizo - now the big competition.

Check again. James Jacobs worked for Paizo, but Rich Baker worked for Wizards until recently.

Unfortunately, I fear the consequence of that one, big, failed experiment is that they'll be less inclined to take risks in future.

Which, of course, explains Vault of the Dracolich and Murder in Baldur's Gate... I really don't think you have to worry about Wizards not being inclined to take risks.

My fear is that they don't learn quickly enough from those experiments or learn the wrong things.
 


delericho

Legend
Check again. James Jacobs worked for Paizo, but Rich Baker worked for Wizards until recently.

Oops, my mistake. Somehow, I'd mentally crossed RHoD with the (rather poor, IMO) "Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk". Sorry.

Which, of course, explains Vault of the Dracolich and Murder in Baldur's Gate... I really don't think you have to worry about Wizards not being inclined to take risks.

I haven't read "Vault...". However, I think I must be missing something about "Murder..." Wasn't it just a fairly standard event-driven adventure? I mean, yeah, it had the big choice at the end, which bodes well for the campaign going forward, but the adventure itself seemed... meh.

So, what have I missed?
 


MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Supporter
I haven't read "Vault...". However, I think I must be missing something about "Murder..." Wasn't it just a fairly standard event-driven adventure?

Mainly that it isn't event driven; well, not as it's typically handled.

Event-driven tends to mean, "At this stage of the adventure, this happens to the PCs". MiBG doesn't take that approach. Instead, it's "At this stage of the adventure, the three factions are doing this", and then lets the DM and players work out how the players fit into the scheme of things. The way it handles the factions is - to my mind - one of the unusual things about the adventure. It allows the players to choose which faction they work for, and even has the possibility that they change factions along the way. There may be other D&D and PF modules like it, but none spring to mind at present.

The main trouble with MiBG is that it can give too little guidance as to what the players should be doing at various stages. (It's probably overlong for an Encounters season, as well). It's really designed for DMs who like improvisation and great freedom in their games; if your perfect adventure is in the Delve format, it's definitely not for you!

Cheers!
 

delericho

Legend
However, I think I must be missing something about "Murder..."

So, what have I missed?

What did Murder in Baulder's gate not do right?

Oh, damn, it's looks like made the same mistake again...

It appears there are two adventures - the pay-for "Murder in Baldur's Gate", and the much shorter, and free, "Murder in Baldur's Gate Launch Event Adventure". It is the latter I've read, and was unimpressed with.
 

MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Supporter
The Launch Event was actually a lot of fun to play through - it looks dull, but plays really well. :)

When this encounter season finishes, I'll write an analysis of what worked and what didn't about the longer adventure. (I've done a preliminary "first read" review, but, as I said in it, it was very, very hard to judge the adventure just from reading it).

Cheers!
 

smerwin29

Reluctant Time Traveler
I'm following this topic with great interest. I've been an active DM since the game started, and I've been a big fan of published adventures the whole time--and since the beginning of 3rd edition I have had the good fortune to write adventures for public consumption. I've learned a bit about adventure design over time, and I definitely still have much to learn, but I think that I have seen and talked to enough players and DMs that it is safe to say one group's "soulless railroad" is another group's "perfectly paced and fun romp," while something like "Murder in Baldur's Gate" is praised highly by some for its wide-open flow and multiple paths, yet others say "why would I run this when I have to do most of the work in putting together the encounters?"

There is so much to say here, and so little time.
 

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